To wonder if past trauma was a factor in the Renee Nicole Good murder and that, while not absolving agent, it shows ICE should select agents more carefully?

[Carla786]

Reading this from the BBC, I wonder if the agent was suffering from previous trauma. They had earlier been in the Iraq War and then had huge number of stitches after being dragged by a car while arresting apparently a 'child sex offender' illicit migrant last March.

Thus I wonder if, because Renee Good clipped them with the car earlier(as The Times indicates), shooting at her car as she drove past was less a rational decision borne from evil and more an instinctive reaction from recent trauma with cars on the job?

This is NOT an excuse. But I wonder if it also shows that ICE are selecting traumatised agents who are too dangerous, due to this, to be in that position?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx4qd4d16no

Is your name "Jack Sparrow"?

We already tried the ‘please go home’ route. They are largely still there, so we have to step up these efforts.

But yeah they should self-deport

Why should people who are visa holders, green card holders, or even US citizens (born or naturalised) "go home"?

It's not just a functioning heart and conscience missing from ideas like this. It's a complete lack of forethought and logic.

While you're attempting to justify the shooting of a woman because of her beliefs, you need to remember that political parties change. The people on "your side" won't always be in control. Your opinion on immigration might not always be the "right" opinion.

Using the fact that Renee was protesting for the wrong side, or getting in the way of someone doing a job you believe is rightful, as added justification for shooting her means you need to accept that when they come for you, when you're no longer on the right side, you accept that no one should speak out for your rights to be protected.

Worth noting that these people consider Ashli Babbit to be a martyr.

The far-right conspiracy theorist who joined a mob intent upon lynching the Vice President and who ignored multiple warnings as she climbed through a shattered window beside a barricaded door.

Yet apparently it's the mother with the soft toys in the glove compartment and a dog in the back seat who is the real danger.

It's insane.

Agreed, with the added insanity that none of them appear to care that due process is not being followed.

Even if you believe the shooting was justified/self-defence, the fact that Trump is actively blocking an unbiased investigation should worry every American.

You can be stripped of your GC if you’ve committed a crime. Which is a good thing—maybe you should try it.

It isn’t because of her beliefs. She should have been arrested for obstruction.

Beyond that, she made a poor decision to drive toward an ICE officer. Nobody forced her to do that.

Has nothing to do with her political views

It’s not Trump’s call. It’s the DOJ. Federal has jurisdiction in this case, so if the DoJ believe he’s done nothing wrong (likely given a Supreme Court case that set the bar for use of deadly force) then they’ll not file charges.

But the supreme also ruled that they cannot put themselves into the position which then threatens their life. The Supreme Court specifically ruled about standing in front of a vehicle which is a threat. Officers cannot walk up to a car they see as a threat, then walk in front of that car and then claim self defence when they shoot. They are not allowed to do that; they cannot create their own deadly threat.

Someone did though, possible. One ICE agent was shouting at her to move her car, to leave, drive away and get the car moved. The other was shouting at her to get out of the vehicle. But it depends on the reporters and how accurate that is.

An agent then walked in front of her car (which has been very clearly ruled as not allowed in their training; they must not put themselves in front of a car and then claim their life was in danger and shoot someone).

I don't think any rational person would suggest that persons who are legally living in the US either on a visa, green card or US citizen (naturalised or born) should be deported.

Deportations should only impact those that are in the US illegally. In addition it's unfair on those migrants that have gone through the correct and timely process to enter the US legally to a) see illegal migrants cut the queue and b) to now feel at risk from the immigration raids by ICE.

Ashli was unarmed, so by your standards I guess you believe that she was unlawfully killed and the officer that killed her should be prosecuted?

From the back, you can see he was not in front until the point she backed up her car.

Whilst I have seen the video evidence of the ICE officers shouting at her to get out of the car (twice) I have yet to see any evidence of her being asked to drive off by ICE officers

The only person instructing her to drive off was her wife and perhaps that's where the confusion comes in.

And all those who have committed no crime? The overwhelming majority of the people ICE abducts have committed no crime.

You know who has committed many crimes? The paedophile US president. Try locking him up or something.

Remind me who runs the DoJ and the FBI?

Pam Bondi and Kash Patel.

They will strip you of your GC if you commit a crime. That I support.

I’m not supportive of stripping college students of their visa just for joining protests unless it’s been demonstrated they’ve been violent. I know a few have been deported for just anti-Semitic speech and I don’t necessarily agree with that.

Wow this thread 😳

You’re just proving my point. He walked in front of a car which was in the middle of a tense situation with a possible suspect in it. The Supreme Court ruling was very clearly; officers cannot walk in front of a car in this situation, then claim their life was at risk and then shoot the person. They absolutely cannot do that.

This has been told to you repeatedly but you keep ignoring it. He was acting against training, against court rulings and against reasonable behaviour. Which means he would fail the “reasonable officer” test so he can be protected, if Trump wasn’t in charge of appointing the heads of all the federal investigative services.

The Supreme Court ruling was very clearly; officers cannot walk in front of a car in this situation, then claim their life was at risk and then shoot the person. They absolutely cannot do that

Supreme Court never said that. I think you are confusing it with those DoJ guidelines someone posted earlier.

Supreme Court set a different standard, whether or not they had a reasonable belief that they or someone else was at risk of imminent death or serious injury.

Well there are clearly many irrational people in the US (circa 77 million I'd estimate) because ICE have been abducting citizens, green card holders and many more who are legitimately in the country on visas. They claim that your documents are "fake" and make access to a lawyer very difficult. If a judge orders them to stop then they'll just stick you on a plane and say "oops, can't get them back now".

ICE agents have been waiting outside citizenship ceremonies and green card interviews, targeting the very people who are going through the immigration process by the book.

But the US President is a born US citizen and not a green card holder. Plus I'm not aware of the claims you make against him- do you have any proof or links to this?

That said I have found references linking Trump and the Republicans to the sinking of the Titanic. So maybe that needs to be examined further.

https://theweek.com/cartoons/702506/political-cartoon-trump-communications-press-conferences-titanic

Seeing ICE/Trump/MAGA defenders call Renee Good’s death a ‘logical, rational consequence’ shows the same pattern of distorted ‘rationality’ that fascist and authoritarian regimes use to justify state brutality.

Renee was the anti-democratic one. I voted for Trump, Congress voted for ICE funding.

Who voted for Renee to insert herself and obstruct ICE operations? She has the right to peacefully protest, not disrupt ICE or put herself and others at risk.