To think some children are just wired to need / want screen time

[Gagamama2]

All my children’s childhood we have limited screen time. They are generally not allowed any on school weekdays (my partner put this in place years ago and gets angry if I relent). They are allowed it on Saturday and Sunday mornings, and holiday mornings, although partner is always unhappy about this and would like to restrict furthur.

Kids are 10, 8 and 6.

It often causes a lot of grief / anger / upset for 10 and 6 who are both boys undergoing assessment for adhd. They often get upset after school that they aren’t allowed any, and when they are allowed they find it hard to come off. This means they regularly have much too much screen time at the weekend as the fall out of them having to come off the screens is big.

My daughter who is 8 is different. She will happily choose other things to do, even if it is a screen time “time”. What prompted my post is that she has spent this morning reading a graphic novel about dragons, and is now singing along at top volume to the greatest showman soundtrack on Alexa, all of her own accord while her brothers are on screens. She just isn’t that bothered. I was the same compared to my brother who spent most of his childhood playing on either our Amiga or his best friends Amiga 😂.

my brother is now a functional adult - much more functional than me, in fact. He has a very good job, although I do look at him sometimes and wonder if he is ND. My point is the screen time didn’t hold him back.

are we unreasonable limiting children’s screen times (as long as it’s not impacting on school work and friendships etc)? Maybe it’s not actually helpful for some children

I'm not sure what you want from the thread...you already admitted they get way too much screen time on a weekend and have meltdowns when they have to come off but if you don't think it's detrimental and want an easier life then just crack on.

How would kids be "wired" to need screen time? They have existed for the last 3 seconds of human history.

Are some "wired" to want it? The more accurate way to put it is that screens are "wired" to trigger the natural wiring of the brain to create addictive behaviours, and that in children use of them actually rewires the brain to make those addictive behaviours more extreme.

@TempestTost very good point. They've proven addictive behaviour like gambling etc. literally rewires the brain so why not the same for screen time? Maybe to a lesser degree or maybe not considering we're talking about young children not even adults here.

How can we, as the product of millions of years of evolution, be wired to need something at best decades old?

The rewards systems using in gaming are based on the very same research used to develop video gambling terminals - which are understood to be massively addictive to adults to the point that in many places there are severely restricted. We certainly don't let children use them.

I think what has changed in the last 10 years is that babies and young toddlers are given screens. It is so sad to see.

At a crucial time in their brain development, they are not given the opportunities to interact with real people and places.

They are an inconvenience to their caregivers.

Primary aged children need to be allowed to get bored. They can then be sent out to play, amuse themselves in their rooms, or do chores. They don't need to have screens, punctuated by going out for expensive planned activities.

I absolutely believe that excessive gaming and possibly screen time rewires the brain and is partially responsible for the increase in ADHD diagnoses.

I strongly advise OP to continue limiting screen time as per their partner's suggestions. In fact I'm wondering if this is a reverse in order to elicit a different response to usual.

As I’ve said upthread, thank you to those who provided useful comments re the boys seeking out screens as a dopamine hit compared to my daughter who is not ND and not lacking in dopamine. This makes complete sense, and is a reason to continue limiting the screens with them even though it is hard work to do so.

To those saying the screens are rewiring my kids brains and causing their ADHD…hmm. Maybe do some research into neurodiversity! It is a genetic condition. I have ADHD, and did not have many screens in my 80s / 90s childhood. My eldest did not have any screens until he was 4, and showed some of his wildest most unmanageable ADHD behaviour as a toddler. My youngest is also being assessed for dyspraxia (which often coexists with adhd and autism), do you think the screens caused this too?! Perhaps there is an argument to say they cause behavioural issues when used for hours a day, but IMO 6 hours a week is not excessive.

anyway, I think my original post was badly worded, I agree with everyone saying as humans we are not wired to “need” screens, but as pp have pointed out the addictive nature of them means some people’s brains ARE more wired to “want” screens, just as some people are more wired to want alcohol or chocolate. For my youngest in particular who struggles at school, playing games on the Switch which he is good at is a confidence boost and it is soothing because all day he has to do things like sitting still, holding a pencil, kicking a ball etc etc which he is rubbish at because of the adhd and dyspraxia. I feel for him that the thing he is actually good at is limited so much. I need to find something going forward to replace it with.

Something I've tried with students which might help your son is to give him a sheet with a large triangle drawn/printed on, coloured green in the bottom two thirds, then orange to red in the top third. He fills in the green with all the things he is good at, orange is for things he can generally do with a bit of support and red for the things he really struggles with. Obviously the green space is much larger so gets filled with lots more things he is good at, and these can be at school, hobbies, using good manners, anything at all. Try to keep the ideas really specific, especially for school related ideas e.g. don't just put 'writing' put 'spelling'. You can all help him to come up with ideas if he's struggling, and you could all fill in your own triangles as well - the idea is to see that everyone has lots of things they're good at but also things they're not so good at and that's okay. Hopefully you'll then have lots of ideas of things he is confident about to guide you with planning fun activities away from screens.

I agree with you, my daughter would choose a doll house/colouring/craft activity over screens. The only thing my son prefers over screens is outdoor exercise and maybe Lego. We don't restrict screens but my daughter has maybe 20 mins a day, maybe half an hour on weekends. My son wants screentime a couple of hours a day is say. Mostly I manage it by spending most of our downtime doing a preferred activity like outdoors, trampolining. LEGO builds etc but there are days we let him crack on and game for longer. He's 7 and ADHD/possibly ASD. He wants to play Minecraft, animal crossing, Zelda most of the time. He's not allowed any online style games, nothing with chat like Roblox for example. He's got to turn all screens off and hour before bedtime just like our daughter. He's neither up nor down if he has more screentime, his behaviour is affected if he doesn't get a few hours exercise every day though so as long as he's played outside, done his sports class/trampolining and we've walked the dog he can game if he likes. He has 2-3 hours exercise a day so there's only so much time left for screens.

With no evidence whatsoever, i never allowed my DD to have a smart phone or a tablet until she was in mid teens, sure she would watch and use at sleepovers but at home, she read, did sport and played outside.

As things have transpired, i'm bloody glad i did.

Why are parents even giving their kids these things at 2, 4, 5, 6 etc is beyond me.
Why did you have children if all you let them do is sit quietly staring at a fucking screen, watching god knows what?

My son never saw a screen as a baby, never wanted to watch a TV once it was allowed after a year old, never watched more than a 5 min duggee episode for example. Was a constantly moving child and we lent into that and kept him incredibly active. He played a Mario game with my husband aged 4 and suddenly he had something he could concentrate on for 20 minutes, it was incredible, he'd never settled or sat down in his life. So definitely the screens didn't cause it, he came out like this. Screentime became incredibly helpful when we realized how bad his danger awareness was when we had our youngest, he'd run off if not physically held in shops etc if overwhelmed. I started putting him in the buggy with a game for a couple minutes here and there while I paid in a shop (in the babies buggy,y son walked at 9 months so walked everywhere) and I'd have baby in a sling. It got us through situations where otherwise he'd be screaming and running unsafely like a bus a journey. Overwhelming situations he could suddenly cope with. At 7 he sits on a bus, in a restaurant, long car journeys etc beautifully without a screen because he's developed that ability over time and gotten more comfortable. Anyway sorry to ramble but for us screens were a coping tool for neurodivergence not something that were introduced mindlessly. We were a screen free, organic whole food only househpld but you get the kid you get and you adapt. If I'd only ever had my daughter I'd probably smugly declare screens the devil too because she could live her whole life with no more than access to a music player and not give a hoot

I'm autistic and old. We didn't have a tv until I was 9. My parents read to me, talked to me, played with me etc.

As a consequence, I was reading simple books on my own before I went to school and have been a voracious reader ever since, but I don't think I'm "wired" to need books!

@Gagamama2 - a lot of the research shows it matters ‘what’ is on the screen just as much as how much screen there is. My son gets 3 hours of video games a week, but we watch a family movie, I watch bake off with him, we watch animal documentaries together… he does scratch with my husband sometimes. So this is all screen time but it’s not the same thing as the immediate gratification stuff on YouTube or switch games. So is there a compromise there? They get x time on their own screens (less if they kick off about it - my son had to learn that if he whined about turning it off, the switch was gone for.a week. I have no patience for that) but then you get together to watch a movie or a competition show or a nature documentary together as some down time maybe after dinner Sunday to wind down for the start of the week?

I am still curious if your husband is usually the last word in family decisions and if this decision affects him as much as you, but I’m just being nosy!

I agree with every word. It's actually very worrying.

There is balanced info on this lady’s website- she also does webinars about healthy screen time. https://naomifisher.co.uk/blog/screens-screens-screens/

My younger child has Asd, severe dyslexia and dyspraxia. He had a one to one care giver who didn’t use screens in the day time until he was nearly 4 and he is now 12 and doesn’t have a phone. However he read very late - that’s just how he is, from Ed psy assessments at 3-5 he scored very low - I wouldn’t have believed it till I experienced helping him and I’m a teacher with 27 years experience. He just couldn’t decode the words or track them however much he practiced (in Sen school now) . He has his tablet and uses it for Minecraft (no chat) and YouTube videos which have been his main way of learning about the world and his beloved trains. He couldn’t read much till age 9ish and found audiobooks too much unless they were slowed down due to processing problems - could only take it in if we read to him and repeated bits all the time. His brother has arguably had more screens and is doing a levels now so I am not sure if it affects academic ability tbh. The tablet has been a lifeline for our younger ds - he does walk for an hour a day and does cooking etc but whereas I would have sat with a book from age 4 upwards he just couldn’t and that’s genetically how he is. He also has software at school that helps him write and spell - a very positive use of screens imo.

I have noticed that older members of our family who are more like this profile zone out with tv.

I am amazed that people do not see (don’t want to see?) the connection between child screen use and the exponential increase in ADHD diagnoses.
It’s like in the 1920s, when people with coughs used to have a cigarette in the belief it was soothing to their lungs….

You’re actually right, kind of. Not hard wired as such but ND people need things to regulate and in the digital age, that’s screens. In previous times it might have been a book or kicking a ball repeatedly. One of my favourite regulating activities is mucking out. But I can’t do that multiple times a day so I use screens, colouring, punch needle etc. My ND daughter also uses screens to regulate along with other things.

The whole screen thing is just a huge moral panic.

Or it could be that more people are getting diagnosed because they have it and they refuse to be brushed off any longer?

ADHD is so much more than what happens when you use screens 🥴

What do you mean by regulate and how is that different than a NT person needing a hobby to relax? Genuinely wondering.

I'm sure there has always been ADHD, but something has changed to cause 5 year olds to have tantrums in school, throw chairs around, threaten teachers and children, and refuse to follow any instructions whatsoever.

Yep! Totally agree. Somewhat obsessive focus to the exclusion of all else and somewhat antisocial is how you could describe my reading habit as a child/teen. I’m not convinced that it’s somehow more educational that watching TV or playing a video game with their sibling. High screen use is the symptom not the cause. More kids who have higher screen use probably have ADHD because more ADHD kids obsessively do everything…

The whole screen thing is just a huge moral panic.

No, it’s not. The government is going to issue guidance on screens for toddlers and young children because a staggering number of parents are sitting infants in front of screens for hours a day. Babies.

@AnneLovesGilbert hopefully they ban them soon and we'll look back in 10 years time aghast at parents sticking screens in front of tiny children. I'm on a screen a hell of a lot and I have way less attention span now and ability to "regulate my emotions" than I did as a young child.

There is lots of research to show that screen time has a very different effect on children’s brains than reading a book does.

And in other news, drug and alcohol addicts vigorously deny that they have a problem…