To be shocked by this government dietary advice for babies and children?

[fourfoxsakes]

from the government in Northern Ireland that is published online? Surely we don’t do these things any more such as mixing baby rice with milk and advising people to feed their very young children rice crispies and cornflakes for breakfast and advising people to give juice with meals! Surely this is bad advice, I am honestly surprised that the government have been allowed to publish this crap. I have no doubt people still do these things which is an individual parenting choice but surely the government shouldn’t be advocating for this?

The UK consumes significantly more ultra processed foods than most other European countries - it's baked into our food culture now.

However, I read the attachments and I don't see too much wrong with them. That's a varied menu and sound advice re sugar. I agree juice/squash isn't needed, but otherwise, I think the menu is pretty balanced and realistic?

NHS (or in this case, HSC) advice has to be realistic, though. Let's face it, those of us posting on MN likely didn't get our weaning advice from an NHS leaflet, we read books and MN threads and websites and yes, those tell you no juice whatsoever and how to avoid UPFs etc etc. But I'm a Home-Start volunteer and I can tell you that there are many, many parents out there who aren't doing that kind of research (for a wide variety of reasons). So for other people, this leaflet could make the difference between them giving their kids squash or diluted fresh orange juice. Between Frosties or Rice Krispies. If the advice was too extreme, it would be ignored entirely. Is it an ideal menu for weaning? No. But is it better than what a lot of kids are fed? Yes. It's a balance.

When they get to school with the free breakfast, what do you think they will be getting

Completely factually incorrect.

A diet has to be taken as a whole. Many foods are technically UPFs but are fine to eat - very few foods are NOT processed in the modern world - this will include milk, cheese, bread, even lettuce!

But there is a scale. Weetabix for example is quite high up on the scale of ultra-processed and yet is a healthy choice - I suggest people focus on the list of ingredients - the more ingredients, the more likelihood of the food item being ultra-processed in an unhealthy way.

Just as an aside, it is recommended to give diluted juice etc by medical professionals as having a sick toddler who will only drink water is a nightmare for getting actual medicine and nutrients into them…they advise if a toddler takes juice it helps with rehydration as contains nutrients and sugar that water alone doesn’t . They mean pure fruit juice diluted not squash. I have lots of family in paediatric medical roles and they all have expressed frustration at the whole “only give them water” train of thought as they really struggle to get sick kids to take oral medicines and things like dioralyte as they don’t like the taste.

YANBU. I was not given food like that growing up, I only drank water (I hated milk) and was only allowed juice or cola on special occasions, ditto high sugar breakfast cereal. That was a holiday treat, normally I had granary bread or branflakes, or fruit and yoghurt. It's part of the reason I have never ever had a weight problem, I think.

Ham is a known carcinogen. I've got less of an issue with Rice Krispies and juice than ham.

I have a 6mo who just started food recently and I've given her baby rice. It's literally just powdered rice. I did sort of baby led weaning with my first and did the same, get them to practice moving food around her mouth with something really safe like this before moving on to other foods.

Some odd takes here - milk is awful for teeth, porridge oats are more expensive that breakfast cereals? Need an overdraft to buy cereals nowadays. The cheaper versions might be higher in sugar/salt also.

Oh give over ffs 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 fuck me.

Yeah ham is an issue, cheese is better, they're moving away from ham now but I'm thinking back to when my children were babies

You've summed up the whole UPF thing so well there, I agree.

I agree with you OP.

Once you start introducing juice to kids they no longer want the 'plain' taste of water.

I did whole foods from the beginning too but I think they're trying to be realistic. A lot of people don't want to make their own baby food, or know how to. A surprising number of people don't know how to cook, the nutritional value of foods, or how to construct a balanced meal. I suspect they're trying to provide a good menu around what will work for the majority of people. Those who will do wholefoods from the start probably won't look to these kind of resources much anyway. They already have their preferred approach sorted.

True. But Weetabix (or supermarket own brand equivalent) is a much better option - more fibre and less sugar. Best of all is Shredded Wheat which has no added sugar at all.

Babies and younger children aren't meant to have nearly as much fibre as adults. It fills them up too quickly and they don't eat enough.
Babies/toddlers/young children have very different dietary needs to adults - more fat, less protein etc
Don't apply adult standards to kids diets

I like egg and onion as a sandwich filling...very NI. My mother in law is a major fan of wee bottle of tea and a jam sandwich. She wouldn't be impressed with the advice.

Literally about to do this in five minutes not thinking it was controversial at all and see this thread 😂 I did it with my older child 8 years ago and he’s a strapping young boy now

On the juice issue, drinking dilute fruit juice with meals is good because the sugars are counteracted by the other foods and the vit c in the juice aids absorption of any iron in the food too.

Its realistic.

I mean they could say the best breakfast is salmon. Avacado, sourbread and a glass of kale and blueberry smoothie but we all know very few kids are getting that for breakfast.

Cheap, filling , nutrionally satisfactory foods (rice crispies are low sugar and vitamin for tified) are what people look for.

And Weetabix is suggested on a different day on the info given in the OP.
It's not suggesting rice crispies every day.

Egg and onion sounds good, need to try that!

This. I think it’s pretty clever guidance actually. Of course we should all be eating organic fruit and veg freshly grown from the garden, salon and homemade sourdough for breakfast with eggs from the hens out the back but realistically people can’t afford to eat like that and even if they can working parents are usually time poor and just don’t have the time. Basically they are saying if you want to make life easier but meet your child’s nutritional needs give them the porridge/ ready break/ rice crispies over the coco pops. Yes water and whole fruit is better but again fruit goes off quickly and is expensive and it’s hardly surprising that kids like juice! Fresh juices like apple and orange juice diluted with meals is far better than a fruit-shoot. Parents get guilt tripped at every turn with food choices etc, let them give the bloody Rice Krispies.

Yep - and if you read the menu then Weetabix is also on there.

I will start by saying this is the absolute truth, not exaggerated for effect. I worked in the next office to the dieticians for a large NHS Trust. About 70% of them were grossly obese (out of breath after one flight of stairs, struggling to fit into normal chairs, etc) and their food cupboard in the kitchen was bursting with crisps, cakes and chocolate biscuits. The other 30% were stick-thin anorexics, who were often off work being hospitalised and tube fed.

A couple of years ago, my husbsnd had to have a gastric feeding tube due to throat cancer, this was monitored at home by two lovely specialist dietetic nurses. They were super knowledgeable, professional and kind. They were also both so big they had to go through doorways sideways.

So, no, I don't have a lot of faith in NHS nutritional advice.