In wanting Mumsnet to help Judi Dench and Joanna Lumley

[GiantBranch]

Last week, Israel banned 37 international aid organisations from operating in the strip, including Oxfam, Save the Children and Medicine Sans Frontieres (MSF). MSF delivers one in three of Gaza’s babies, and experts warn that immediate action must be taken to prevent a catastrophe.

It has prompted more than 100 leading members of the arts, including Dames Judi Dench, Imelda Staunton, Joanna Lumley, Sienna Miller, Suranne Jones and singer Paloma Faith, to sign a letter urging popular online platform Mumsnet to join them in demanding urgent government action ensuring maternity care is accessible in Gaza.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-baby-birth-judi-dench-letter-b2896981.html

Just to confirm yes, I was being ironic.

Every time OP or someone else posted 'oh but don't you care about babies and maternity care in Gaza' or 'it's literally just about supporting maternity care in a war zone' I made a point to mirror / show how emotionally manipulative such sweeping statements are. With the added bonus of raising the profile of the shocking lack of maternity care in Afghanistan.

And there have been multiple times on this thread that OP and others have said words to the effect of 'it's just about supporting maternity care / babies'. But it's not, is it, because this letter is not supporting maternity care in equally difficult or worse situations for mothers and babies elsewhere in the world. It's wanting a specific thing in this specific conflict and frankly, seems to me to be supporting a particular side.

Israel's requirements that aid agencies demonstrate they're not aiding and abetting terrorists is not unreasonable.

Plenty of aid agencies have met those demands, some have not and have made anti-Israeli public statements instead.

That's your read I guess. I see several posters derailing with why these celebs don't care about XYZ and by raising the cause of Palestinian women they don't give a shit about women in Afghanistan and questioning the motive of OP posting this and the notices of the celebs which can't possibly be the motivation as they've stated it.

Spot on.

I wonder if they are aware how bad they are making FWR look?

Why, if you feel so passionately about this for you not actually read the registration requirements enough to know it's not simply about giving over the names of their Palestinian staff ? Which they are legitimate in finding risky given how many Palestinian aid workers have been murdered. Have you not read any of the other requirements or are you deliberately misrepresenting the facts? Why for example, can someone not give aid in Gaza because they support boycotting Israeli products because of their disregard for international law and human rights? Are you not naming the others because it's more obvious that this is a political decision and not solely based on Israel's security?

😁

Oh, give up.

Hamas terrorists don't care about pregnancy or uniting women, they pull on heartstrings with PR stories like this to fulfil their own aims.

There are still aid organisations operating in Gaza that have been transparent with the identities of their workers. The ones that didn't supply the names pose a threat to Israeli security so weren't allowed.

This playbook is always the same. Hamas hide terrorists/weapons in schools/hospitals/aid trucks/ambulances, then profit off the headlines that focus on Israel's response.

If you want to have any chance of salvaging any sort of positive perception of FWR I would suggest you give up.

😂😂

Advanced Search is your friend if you wish to assess whether any poster tediously and repeatedly expresses their dislike of feminist women on Mumsnet

I have read the registration requirements and I've obviously come to a different conclusion to you. I do think aid agencies that show anti-semitic bias are more likely to work with terrorists, yes, than those who don't.

Can you not understand why - given the EXPLICIT aim of Hamas is to annihilate Israel - that Israel requires aid agencies to be neutral? Boycotting Israeli products isn't neutral.

How can you say Israel ignores human rights but not Hamas? Hamas doesn't believe gay people should live and love freely, but they can in Israel. It's all so very one-sided.

As far as you're obviously concerned Hamas can do no wrong and Israel can only do wrong. I don't believe that either side in this conflict is unilaterally 'right'. There have been human rights violations on both sides. I also think there is a lot of misinformation on both sides, and it's almost impossible to know what the truth is, although it's often quite clear what the truth is not.

Who's annihilating who here?

It is Israel who are committing genocide according to the United Nations.

Why for example, can someone not give aid in Gaza because they support boycotting Israeli products because of their disregard for international law and human rights?

Are you seriously suggesting Israel should allow politically partisan aid agencies who are already acting against Israel’s interest into a hugely security sensitive war zone?

If Israel requires aid agencies to be neutral it wouldn't be demanding they sign up to non-neutral political positions. Boycotting while not neutral is a perfectly peaceful way to protest an injust government.

I never said Hamad doesn't it human rights either did I? Thats you inserting words that aren't there or being ironic again? Unsure. If you reread you'll see I spoke about Israel ignoring human rights as in that's a reason people boycott Israeli products. As far as I'm aware Hamas don't export any products we can boycott?

As far as you're obviously concerned Hamas can do no wrong

Huh? They're a terror organisation. Is this irony again? Cos at this point if you accuse me baselessly of supporting a terror organisation I'm going to start reporting it as a personal attack.

You know the International Criminal Court has an arrest warrant out for Netanyahu right?

What has that got to do with allowing politically active anti-Israeli organisations into a very security sensitive site?

The UN is not a neutral organisation. Hamas headquarters were uncovered directly beneath the UNWRA headquarters, powered with electricity from their building.

Gaza is a tiny area. If Israel had wanted to commit genocide, they could have achieved that in a matter of days. There is zero evidence of genocide, it is simply a misuse of the word intended to demonise a defensive response that any other country would have adopted in the wake of a terrorist attack that literally decimated their population.

But it's an effective tactic. Attack, start a war, refuse to surrender, then make an accusation of genocide after the response.

You're suggesting that Israel let in aid agencies that may be supporting Hamas without any checks or safeguarding at all. To just take at face value what they say is true, even if acting against Israel in other ways? They'd be bonkers to do that. How is that not supporting Hamas?

What do you think Hamas need to do to demonstrate that they are not harming mothers and babies in Gaza? Not using them as human shields?

Tell me what you think Hamas need to do to help improve the situation for civilians and for maternity care.

And the International Criminal Court? I guess it's biased too is it?

The knots you must tie yourselves in to justify this, it must be very mentally exhausting.

So an agency or it's workers can't support the legal and peaceful route of boycotting a state that's in breach of international law by your standards? Would you feel the same about aid agencies being denied entry to Afghanistan for supporting peaceful protest against the Taliban regime?

Let me ask you a question.

Is the International Criminal Court anti-Israel because it has issued an arrest warrant for Netanyahu on war crimes and crimes against humanity?

It is beginning to get a bit surreal on here.

Israeli armed forces have killed 579 aid workers to date. They have been blocking aid for months so this is not a new tack.

As an occupying force, they are legally obliged to provide adequate aid. This was already not happening before the deregistration of existing NGOs.

There are many testimonies from volunteer surgeons who had repeatedly been denied entry and had medical equipment arbitrarily confiscated. Victoria Rose and Graeme Groom are two UK surgeons - try Googling what they have to say.

Israel simply does not want to allow aid in.
That is why we need to leverage as much as possible. It’s not rocket science.

I find the whole "if this is a genocide it's not happening fast enough" line that's trotted out on here utterly distasteful. Absolutely misinformation again. The ICJ has found the case of genocide plausible and advised measures. Thats not "no evidence". The lies combined with the pithy joke that if they wanted to commit genocide they'd do it quicker is really gross.

Absolutely.

Putting words in my mouth again I see. Is this still irony? You really live reading words that aren't there it seems. I fail to see how seeing NGOs concern about the safety of their workers given Israel's record of murdering Palestinian aid workers is "supporting Hamas". Retract that or I'm gonna report you for repeated personal attacks as stated. Thanks for showing that your previous hyperbole wasn't in fact irony you were just accusing people of not giving a shit about Afghanistan.

To be clear, I don't expect humanitarian aid or welfare for civilian from A TERRORIST ORGANISATION just as I don't expect Isis to do any bloody good deeds either. That doesn't mean I shouldn't expect a state to uphold international law and human rights and that I can't support peaceful boycotts and political pressure for those statues to comply with international and human rights law

• because my bar isn't on the floor doesn't mean I support Hamas. I don't know how I can say any clearer I don't support a terrorist organisation for you to stop throwing around that baseless accusation.

I would if I were the Taliban regime. I

You're very close to getting the point then