Would you separate in these circumstances

[PinkertonRab]

AIBU to want a divorce?

I’ll try keep it short. Together 20 years in total since our early 20s. 4 children aged 11, 8, 5 and 3. I’m the main breadwinner (we both work) but also completely fed up with doing 90% of all household tasks and 100% of mental load and DIY. We have argued about this forever.

Sometimes DH improves for a short while with washing and hoovering but it rarely lasts. More recently, he genuinely believes he is actually doing his fair share - it’s delusional but he’ll wash up once and then refer back to it in the argument when I say I’m sick of him doing nothing.

He’s an excellent dad and hands on with school run and playing with kids but that also means he’s the ‘fun’ parent while I remind them to tidy their room or brush their teeth. He’s a kind person who I know loves me works full time (longer hours than me) and can do some tasks if I ask. But there is inability to see any task that needs doing, and unable, and seemingly unwilling to learn any basic diy. If I don’t fix it, it stays broke. I deal with all admin, bills, insurance, holidays etc

I am just so tired of the same argument. If it hasn’t changed in 20 years then it isn’t going to. I’m worn out, snappy, fed up. My life would run so much smoother without chasing round after an overgrown child who takes no responsibility for anything. If I hadn’t have taken the Christmas tree down, I’d be willing to bet it would stay up til this Christmas.

Both DH and the kids would be devastated if we split. Is this just how life is? I’m not looking for perfect or anything exciting- just an actual partner doing their share. He creates more work for me. I’ve lost respect and am noticable withdrawn from relationship but feel awful breaking up family when he’s not done anything ‘wrong’ and like I’m selfish.

YABU - this is life and not worth the upset to the kids
YANBU - a divorce is best long term

So many men are like this, it drives me insane. Primarily it's about respect imo. He hasn't respected you enough to listen and change in 20 years, he's taken you for granted and it seems unlikely that it will change any time soon. Sorry OP.
Only you can decide if you can live with it for another 40.....!

He can pay for all of it. She is already carrying her weight and his, so he can splash the cash since he's happy to see her ground into the dirt under the weight of his laziness.

Don't divorce him straight away. Move out and leave him to run the house and family for a month so he sees what's involved.

That sounds like a horrible punishment for her poor daughters, setting them up for neglect and living in filth. I doubt any loving mother could leave their children with a lazy wanker and be comfortable with that.

Personally I'd be hesitant to advise you to leave purely because you say you do love him and you feel that he loves you. So that makes me think maybe there is room to work at this.

I would sit down with him and say very clearly that you keep having the same argument and that essentially it boils down to an uneven split in 'the load'. I would detail exactly what the load is- make a list of everything from admin to bills to appointments, to childcare to cleaning and DIY etc - everything. Then I think you need to split out together what is who's responsibility and negotiate it fairly so that you are balanced out with working hours and down time as much as you can be. The things on his responsibility list are now his to be fully responsible for and you are washing your hands of those things. You only do what's on your list. But that also means if things aren't done quite to your standard you have to let it go if you're criticising him then it's too easy for it to turn into weaponised incompetence and fall back to you doing it to do it 'right'.

If he's not happy doing DIY then it needs to be outsourced. I personally wouldn't feel confident doing certain DIY things so I can't blame him for that but then he needs to arrange for someone else to do it or it needs to be on your list and he steps up elsewhere.

I think you should go for couples counselling and make it a priority. If you're using terms like "you do nothing" that's really unhealthy arguing and probably sets him on the defensive rather than recognising that your point is valid. So even to learn how to communicate these things to each other and really listen might help. I think you prioritise finding a babysitter to free you up to do that, or you do it online at home when the kids are in bed and use the babysitting time to go on a date every now and then. Set the dates in the calendar and allocate one each to plan.

Do your kids do chores? They are all old enough to help around the house with age appropriate tasks so that can also lighten what you're carrying. How often do you get out yourself? Can you take up a hobby or do something for you once a week and have him do the same so you've planned down time to refill your cup.

I think I would do this, set myself a mental 6 months-1 year and if in that time nothing has improved or if it did and then went back to how it was then I'd walk. But you need to go all in for the time you commit to this. Ultimately op you can't single handedly sustain a relationship- he has to meet you halfway on this or its a sinking ship.

A poster recommended a book on a previous thread. It's called Fair Play. The booked is based on the mental load of women. Because it isn't just the doing, is it? It's the thinking about, organising and carrying out everything it takes to run a home and family.

Do you ever run out of loo roll and toothpaste OP? Of course you don't, because you think about it, write in a the shopping list, go to the supermarket to buy it, and then pop it in the bathroom. (Roughly how it goes. Even if you delegate the shopping trip to another family member, you've put in all the brainwork).

It's worth a read. The intention of the book is to share the home-work load with your partner, with tools to help you get some time back and not hold so much of the responsibility.

He might step up

Been together for almost fifty years, had the same problems as you, rowed, tried a cleaner, sending out ironing, gardener, decorator but gave up on all but the last two. I was at breaking point many times and threatened divorce.
We listed the tasks we did. He suggested we did equal amounts but I was slower - no, I was more thorough. Too many times he relaxed while I beavered away and he happily let me. I blamed him for not doing enough, for having to be told. I nagged.
Now I don’t ask but inform him what needs to be done (with the implication he’s to do it while I’m doing other tasks), e.g. the bathroom needs cleaning; this room needs tidying, vacuuming and dusting; worktops need cleaning, etc. He tries to argue some of these were last done a week or two ago, that it’s unnecessary, but he knows it won’t wash so he does it. He loves a clean and tidy house but not the processes involved to achieve it. As long as tasks are bite size and swiftly accomplished resulting in a calm, happy wife he’ll go for it.
We share admin.
He cooks more than he did to get the praise he wants. Cynical moi? Ha!

As someone single for 10 years I can honestly say leaving was the best thing I ever
did. Yes I have to do everything BUT I have no resentment and resentment is HEAVY. Plus I don’t have a man child to clean up after…because that’s what you have too OP and it wears you down. He won’t change. 💕

Not sure that’s true. So many women say their life is easier post separation.

How can he say he loves her whilst watching her work herself into an early grave?

He absolutely loves himself more

Why do you love him?

What is loveable about him?

He loves being in control of her. Owning her makes him feel the money she earns is really his money, she is his cash cow and his domestic slave. His golden goose, his magic money tree and magic cleaning fairy.
AND she has born him children, provided a lineage for free on top of all the above.

I was massively resentful and he didn’t want to separate. He hates me nagging and prefers brief direct statements. There’s a lot more balance than there was. I think my DH has changed.

And he might not - the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour and he's been a lazy, selfish arsehole for a long time.

Just because he hasn't stepped up so far doesn't mean he can't.

Of course he can. He chooses not to. It is a choice to be a lazy, selfish arsehole and he has made that choice for many years. She would be using her daughters as a teaching tool for a lazy wanker who already understands precisely everything he has to do and is choosing not to.

Up to OP if she wants to cause her kids distress by fucking off for a month and leaving them with a selfish pig to use them as a teaching tool for his lazy wankery. Wouldn't be me.

I've had the same issue with my husband, we had 3 children in a fairly short space of time and my husband had a demanding job (teaching) which took up so much of his time on top of doing long hours in school. We were both tired and snappy, working long hours trying to do too much in too little time. My husband although did some stuff left a lot of stuff to me and like your husband if I didnt do it, it just didnt get done. We were heading for divorce I thought at one point, we'd reached breaking point. What changed was he changed careers, he picked up more of the slack, the children grew a couple of years older and I lowered my standards around the house. He still can't wash clothes and I have to have a fallout to do the simplest DIY jobs but I think a lot of our stress on top of having busy jobs and lives was just being in the fog, the fog being having small children who rely on you for everything. Our youngest is 4 now and life is getting a lot easier. I'd never advise anyone to break up when their children are small (obviously excluding abuse/domestic violence) but when you are just finding doing everything and kids tough, wait it out, you may well come out the other side of it. And of course if your job or other things are making you stressed, tired, hard to live with you can change that too. Despite the cries to divorce at anything on this website I don't actually think it's the right solution in every case. Yes some men are lazy and need a second mother and will just never change, you either accept them or you move on, but some can change for the better.

My husband has picked up so much more in the past 2 years and does seem to have changed, a lot of it is just not being quite so knackered, but yes I did spend the best part of 4/5 years arguing and falling out. I don't think there's a quick fix but making some changes can help. Getting one of those boards to organise the house can help (they are digital and you can add chores, to dos, calendars etc), I think a lot of it they don't even realise you do it if you've always done it, a bit like when you are a kid and you are oblivious.

I wouldn't break my family up over this, not at this point at least.

Speaking as a child of divorced parents - regardless of being 38, as well as someone who has a lot of divorced family members and friends.

Staying together for the kids is actually one of the biggest disservice anyone can do for a child. On the surface it looks like you are doing a favour, but children are not one-dimensional dummies, they SEE and FEEL. They will see that mom is unhappy, they will feel the tension, they will pick up on the vibes and frustration, the sadness and a sense of wrong. On another note - What message does staying together for the kids' sake teach them? What example does it set? I have to be specific here - when that is the only thing someone stays married. They will grow up with the experience of their parents forcing something that does not work, to sacrifice their own happiness on the altar of a make-believe marriage. I wouldn't want that for my child. If you divorce, neither of you will stop being their parents, they don't have to choose who to love. The relationship of the parents should be about them - the parents.

There doesn't need to be an actual harm done to separate - like cheating or abuse.. If there is unhappiness. I would always lean towards communication and trying to fix things in circumstances like yours, but of course, I do not know you or him... It is clear you communicated that you are unhappy with certain things he does/or doesn't do. But have you talked about the extent of your happiness? Is he aware that you reached a level of contemplating leaving? Just wondering...

Personally, I would imagine life as a single parent to 4 kids and your combined income shared between two houses instead of one, would mean your quality of life goes down with divorce - not up.

No one needs to stay in a marriage if unhappy but it sounds like there are things you could do to make life easier:

Marriage counselling
Using your higher income to pay for home help with chores or even some family admin help
Finding areas that your husband can excel at or at least be accountable for e.g. laundry - no clean clothes/ no clean uniforms etc your kids can nag your DHL it's obvious who is not pulling weight...
Or agree the days he shops and cooks for dinner...

Good luck.

He's chosen not to step up because there's been no consequences for him if he doesn't. Wifey does everything so there's no need for him to bother.

I'm not really getting a lot about your actual relationship from your posts. Do you still like him? Enjoy his company? Does his inability to Do All The Things stem (do you think) from a fundamental disrespect for you or taking you for granted, or is he a kind and loving partner who does put your comfort ahead of his? Or something else entirely.

I'm very happy with my husband. Either of us leaving the washing up of a morning would be a complete non-event. Mornings are busy, washing up sometimes waits until after work. But I do know that if I cared deeply about washing up being done before work, and if he knew this, he would absolutely make sure he did it or at least we would discuss to find a mutually non-annoying way forward.

Go away on holidays on your own for a week. Let him deal with it. He can manage the 3YO and the others are older. Let him have the fun of finding out for himself just what and how much is involved.

It sounds like he just doesn't care enough to change. Go to see a solicitor. If you have equal savings to equity no reason why he couldn't take savings. You'd probably have Tom pension share. You are correct to be worried about modelling Mum acting like a maid and Dad making a mess and never cleaning it up behaviour. Could you afford a cleaner to take some of the strain off of you?

My ex was also a lazy bugger. Left trash in his drawers, uneaten food in the fridge. I had to do and arrange all DIY, I was also the breadwinner and owned the house - hence his lazy reason for not helping with the DIY, I divorced him and despite him taking 55 percent of my pensions and 70 percent of the house equity, I am more at peace and in control. I recently cleared the loft and storeroom which he basically chucked rubbish in. I am now able to spend more quality time with the kids rather than running around doing all the h chores and life admin whilst he played with them.