AIBU - sparklers indoors should be illegal following Crans Montana deaths

[Onemorechristmas]

I know that there are specific indoors sparklers that are legal (and it is illegal to use outdoor sparklers indoors) but wouldn’t it be much simpler if all sparklers were illegal for indoor use? Isn’t it asking for trouble to say some are ok and some aren’t?

I’m being unreasonable - current legislation is sufficient
I’m NOT being unreasonable - legislation should be simplified such that no sparklers may be lit indoors

You can legislate against stupidity. It's one of the cornerstones of health and safety. You remove dangers and prevent human error.

I’ve been in venues in the UK where the fire exits are either locked or blocked.

Legislation only creates consequences for failure to comply. It doesn't change the outcome when people fail to comply in bthr first place.

I was a HSE Inspector - I've met plenty of businesses and individuals who either fail to understand the law or just don't care. And they don't care about the damage they cause unless it impacts them directly.

I agree, but it may be difficult for the Swiss to ensure the owners face justice because they are French and France doesn’t extradite its own citizens.

@NeedForSpeedyGonzales I think that’s correct. Flout and hope you don’t get caught out or think they are above regulations

Although they may therefore be prosecuted in France, but per French law. The laws and regulations of Switzerland would, I think, then be irrelevant and they would be prosecuted on the basis of whether what they did would have been illegal in France.

Really? most hi rise buildings in UK still have flammable cladding and locking of fire escapes is illegal in the developed world, inc in Switzerland but it still goes on.
The delays in implementing the Grenfell report is shameful, it will take many more years before the recommendations are fully applied.

My partner still fits celotex and similar products in buildings, private homes and businesses, all will burn easily, producing awful smoke.

I wouldn't be too smug about the UK.

@jasflowers that’s awful. How?!?
according to posters on the other thread the owners have a very dodgy background and I think what comes out is only going to get worse. They refurbed the bar themselves too

I’ve just looked up that list. It’s notable how many of the fires - particularly those with high fatalities - list pyrotechnics and flammable ceiling materials as the causes, and yet this still keeps happening.

Until the inquiry reports, all that we are hearing is rumour, no one is going to now say "the owners were great people etc etc"

I have often wondered if instead of Grenfell, the fire had been at Eton or Westminster with dozens killed, if the recommendations would have all been implemented many years ago?

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel How many night club fires in Switzerland before this one?
I cannot find a serious fire in a bar/nightclub in that country.

Countries can have a brilliant safety record until they don't...

None.
One in Netherlands, one in Germany, one in Belgium, two in France….

The owner's criminal record is a matter of public record. People have looked it up.

We shouldn’t be smug about the UK because fire inspections are just as likely as any other public function to be impacted by austerity and a system can work well for decades before being hollowed out to ineffectiveness due to funding cuts.
I don’t think it’s sheer chance that we have had decades without a similar tragedy but we shouldn’t take it for granted that it will continue.

I was surprised by the ages of some of the missing. Are 15 and 16 year olds allowed in bars in Switzerland?

I don’t think the bar was entirely full of young teens, more that they were the ones who reacted slowest. In the videos, you can see it’s young teenage boys dancing.

At least one of the security guards is dead.

The drinking age is 16. Under 16s are allowed into bars when accompanied by an over 18.

These were affluent, continental kids drinking champagne in a ski resort… They wouldn’t have been getting wasted.

I have a friend who works at a school, nearby. Several of the victims attended the same school - ie local, not tourists. This has devastated the wider community

In Breaking News, it would seem that the mayor has now moved to ban pyrotechnics such as those sparklers in all indoor venues. The rest of Switzerland may follow suit.

I think it is more the flammable sound proofing that was used from what I have read

It’s so many factors. If the second fire exit was indeed locked then it makes me sick to the stomach. However I’ve also read that that was narrow and into a stair well where you had to go up it before out, so not sure that would pass in the UK etc