AIBU - sparklers indoors should be illegal following Crans Montana deaths

[Onemorechristmas]

I know that there are specific indoors sparklers that are legal (and it is illegal to use outdoor sparklers indoors) but wouldn’t it be much simpler if all sparklers were illegal for indoor use? Isn’t it asking for trouble to say some are ok and some aren’t?

I’m being unreasonable - current legislation is sufficient
I’m NOT being unreasonable - legislation should be simplified such that no sparklers may be lit indoors

We banned handguns aftrr Dunblane which was a pretty isolated incident and I think the consensus is that it was a fucking brilliant decision.

I was reading yesterday about a disaster in the USA decades ago where hundreds of people died in a fire at the Beverley Hills Supper club. They were way over capacity. Nobody was charged then in connection with the deaths which seems crazy. But guess times were different.

if someone has cut corners then I do think there should be repercussions. Likewise I don’t think people should be made a scapegoat for the sake of it if it turns out the building had passed safety inspections

though a former waitress has said that there is another fire exit and it was always locked. Which if true is shocking.

A few years ago I was at a restaurant for a Christmas meal with about 15 other people. The restaurant gave us all crackers and party poppers (the little ones where you pull the string and paper streamers come out).

We all pulled the party poppers at the same time. A few of the streamers came down and landed in the tea lights that were on the table. One then set light to a paper napkin that was scrunched up, and before we knew it we had a fire in the table

There were jugs of water so we threw those on, the fire went out and no harm was done. But it was completely predictable and yet a whole group of adults who hadn't even started drinking didn't stop to think paper streamers + candles = really bad idea.

We need better compliance with fire standards and we need to educate people more about the dangers of fire and how unpredictable it can be.

I don't disagree with any of what you say.

But you can remove extra, foreseeable fire sources. I think we agree?

There is an excellent, very moving book by Lucy Easthope about responses to disasters.

I don't have Twitter any more but I'd bet she is commenting.

I agree with you, OP. It's about keeping it simple - no fireworks indoors. When you muddy the waters with having indoor and outdoor fireworks, it can cause confusion or people thinking it's OK to chance it with the wrong kind, people uncertain about challenging others' use of fireworks indoors because they haven't seen the label.

No fireworks indoors = no debate.

No! The place was staffed by teenagers, probably just like the bar staff in this terrible incident.

I think Swiss legislation should focus more on not permitting clubs/bars to be opened in basements without adequate fire escapes or sprinkler system/fire extinguishers.
I hope those responsible for this tragedy are locked up for a very long time.

It's not an isolated incident. There have been easily a dozen similar fires with multiple deaths.

The guy was only operating in Switzerland because he has a criminal record in France for corruption and pimping

Tbf if there is one place known for rule-following it is Switzerland

And Goa, Bangkok, Brazil, Buenos Aires, Bucharest, Rouen and Skopje, all in the past decade or so, all caused by candles or indoor pyrotechnics

Swiss nightclubs are invariably underground for noise abatement. I’ve been in one in a ski resort.

Apparently , not so much in the ski resorts where things have, traditionally, been a bit more relaxed.

Yes, obviously, as I’ve said in earlier posts, too. The post of yours I objected to was the one stating that we should “remove the sources of fire”. It is not possible to eliminate them so while they can be reduced it is important also to have sufficient exits, fire extinguishers, effective evacuation plans, and very importantly NOT to use highly flammable materials in the ceilings of crowded public venues, particularly any that are underground.

Wow.
Why am I not surprised?
Not some wholesome family businessman just trying to make a living then.

To be fair, I said remove or minimise. By fire source, I mean things like candles, cigarettes, sparklers. etc. rather than something which doesn't become a fire source when it goes wrong (eg electric circuits). But even those can and have been minimised with proper wiring and RCDs etc.

Outdoor patio heaters have become rarer (and are banned by some councils) since there were a few incidents of pub goers being burned by the,, as another example.

This. It reminds me of when we used to be able to smoke inside and there was always someone doing something stupid with a lighter. I do think that the smoking regulations may have dumbed people's instincts here with fire indoors, possibly regulations too? The kids clearly didn't know how to put out a fire and were fanning it and filming it rather than using fire escapes and extinguishers.

Those poor poor people. I actually escaped a house fire as a child (grandparents’ heater exploded). Ever since I refuse to go anywhere with pyro and indoor flames (I’m okay with a fireplace but would never use one myself). I am constantly ringing venues in advance. It’s probably not healthy but I’ve seen far too many videos which explain the dynamics of crowd surge and fires.

I ask that people make sure to be mindful of exits and routes to escape points when out and about. I really can’t think of a worse death. Horrendous

I’m sorry, I don’t understand your post. Electrical circuits do become a source of fires when they go wrong, as do the other things you listed. None of them exist for the purpose of starting fires.

The information on Swiss fire regulations is publicly available, as are the UK regulations.

Because some of them are fires!

See also cigarettes in stands in UK football. Banned.

Yes, I believe she has also done some interviews since this incident and is supporting investigatory teams.

She was on desert island discs a while back. It was an interesting listen.

So are gas hobs and fireplaces etc. If your proposal is to eliminate any flame from life that’s unrealistic. Fire regulations are about managing risk appropriately for the environment which means there is a good case for banning pyrotechnics entirely in venues like this (and they do require explicit individual permission in Switzerland with approval on a case-by-case basis) but also regulating the environment itself so that when things do go wrong the results are not catastrophic within minutes. Banning highly flammable materials from use in ceilings in public venues, and especially those that are underground, is an obvious step that should have been taken a long time ago and is not in place in the UK, either.