to think WLI have given many people huge health improvements despite the remarkable number of people on MN who are anti WLI for no good reason

[MountainStorm]

There seem to be endless anti WLI threads on here filled with misinformation, faux concern, and thinly disguised jibes at overweight people. I don’t really understand the motivation but that’s another issue.

On the other hand, many people have seen huge improvements in their health, confidence and wellbeing from using WLI. I certainly have.

So I wanted to ask AIBU to say that WLI have given many people huge health improvements and to ask what health improvements have you personally experienced on WLI?

For me

• been able to reduce antidepressant medication
• improved fitness, don’t get so tired or out of breath when walking

“I hope they get fat again, like they deserve.”

I wonder that- I think once these are available in pill form, half the controversy will go away.

I can't get on with MJ unfortunately. I lost some of the weight on Wegovy, but stopped as it was very slow progress. I then tried again with MJ but the exhaustion was terrible.

I am not hugely overweight, or at least, I can live with being on the borderline between overweight and obese, and so have decided not to use them for the time being.

If I didn't have side effects, though, I'd be the first in the queue to control my BMI this way.

That’s a handful, not countless but I appreciate you taking the time to find those 4 threads.

Food manufacturers put as much investment into marketing methods designed exactly to encourage people to 'make poor choices' as they do into developing and producing the food itself.

We simply did not have an obesity crisis before the advent of mass marketed UPFs available at cheap prices.

OP - I have no problem with people who have used WLI to address weight and eating issues. Whatever works for the individual is best. Crack on, good luck and fantastic for everyone who is leading a better life as a result.

But WLIs address the symptoms of our imbalance with food supply and consumption, not the cause.

That's my problem. That WLI become a huge new industry feeding off an increasingly corporate and toxic food culture.

In some ways I find those posts quite positive (and none of them have piled ALL the weight back on, as some people say). What is happening is that people are still monitoring their weight, recognising that things are going awry (somethimes due to very challenging situations), and going on a relevant discussion forum looking for support.

Putting on weight is common after you stop ANY diet - weight watchers, slimming world, Atkins etc. For me the difference is that when I came off those diets, and the weight was going back on I stuck my head in the sand. I couldn't face another round of slimfast drinks or whatever. This lead to years of yo-yo dieting of the worst sort which f'kd up my metabolism.

You will also find lots of posts where people are saying they put on 2, 3 or 4 pounds at Christmas but now they are confident that they can lose it quickly and keep up the good progess.

Alcohol manufacturers label their product so we know exactly what is in it, much like food manufacturers and there are laws in place to prevent underage drinking.

I asked is it their fault that we have alcoholics as a pp suggested it's the food manufacturers fault for 'enabling' poor food choices?

I have lost over 8 stone and will have been on MJ for 2 years come march.

I look great. Unfortunately I don't feel it, but that's because I've been diagnosed with a life altering neurological disease and that's sucking all my energy.

But I wonder what it would be like if I hadn't lost the weight? Much, much worse I imagine.

Op has explained why she posted in aibu instead of the WLI boards.

"Surely reducing the amount you consume independent of drugs is the answer?"

Give me strength. Who would ever have thought of that?

The point is that, for most people, it isn't that easy. If it were, we would all just do it. Even with MJ, it's still an effort.

For some of us, weight gain is caused by illness or by medication to treat that illness - steroids, beta blockers, anti depressants, to name but a few. And there are those of us with a variety of illnesses or disabilities that make exercise, or some kinds of exercise, difficult or impossible.

And then there's the inflammatory effect. Various illnesses lead to inflammation which disrupts the body's normal systems, and can lead to weight gain. Obesity itself leads to inflammation, which then becomes a vicious circle, one which is incredibly hard to break out of. And one which is not helped by people telling us to just eat less and move more.

What MJ has done for me, regardless of any weight loss, is break that cycle. From the first dose, I had reduced joint inflammation and pain. I have not had a migraine attack in the ten months I have been taking MJ. Over time, my blood pressure and cholesterol have come down to healthy levels.

I have also been able to take up exercise, because those, and other symptoms, have largely disappeared. So, I've done Couch to 5k and am now working my way up to 10k. I have taken up weight training. I couldn't start doing that until I shifted some of the weight and the medication took care of some of my other symptoms (joint pain and migraine vertigo in particular). Now I am lighter, and leaner, and fitter than any time since I was a teenager. Since February, I have lost 38kg (starting at 100kg) and my BMI is now about 21, from about 34.

I have had very few side effects. A little constipation, indigestion if I eat very sweet or fatty foods, a sense of sleeplessness/anxiety the first night after each jab. My skin and hair are great (though I had a little hair loss, now regrown, at the higher doses). People tell me I look well.

I now eat very healthily with moderate treats on special occasions, do some intermittent fasting, and drink lots of water.

I am on a 2.5mg maintenance dose now, and I will see how that goes for at least six months.

It's a personal choice whether to take WLIs. I am glad I did as nothing else was working. The benefits, which are not only about weight loss (though clearly have some connection with weight loss, as our bodies are complex wholes), need to be recorded. And the myth of "just eat less" certainly needs to be challenged.

No, there are lots of people who deny that eating less is the solution. Post after post from people who are eating nothing and not losing weight according to them. So, there must be some people for whom these drugs will not work as they are absolutely convinced that it's not calories that are making them put weight on, it is something else. The same people who would presumably still continue to thrive in a famine situation.

I’m sorry you are facing that @Flapearedknave but pleased the WLI worked for you.

But there is some basis to this, addictive personalities will be addictive personalities - the many people who give up recreational drugs and booze and then become addicted to running for example.

The poster isn't saying everybody will - but some people who eat to fill a void will need that void filling with something else. That isn't being disgusted by overweight people. Although I know some people have reported that, just as the pleasure from food is dulled on the drugs, it's also dulled pleasure from other things so that may stop another thing coming in the place of excess food.

But WLIs address the symptoms of our imbalance with food supply and consumption, not the cause.

Of course that is true. However the difference for me was that on WW or slimming world it was a constant miserable struggle. I could keep it up for 3, maybe 6 months, but although I knew what healthy foods and portions were, I was always desperate to return to my previous ways of eating - with the resultant weight gains.

On MJ, I could ride out the 11 months that it took to get to a healthy BMI. I started to really enjoy the better quality healthy food, I had time to develop better habits around exercise and portion size - I now always use a small size plate - and I have lost my sweet tooth, so cakes are no longer a temptation. I am part of MJ support threads where we encourage each other, and support one another if we're struggling. I have maintained my current weight for 7 months - something I have never managed before. I know this is n=1 and anecdotal but for me WLIs allowed me the time to address the cause.

In addition, some people who are obese have insulin resistance and other metabolic disorders which makes it incredibly difficult for them to lose weight, even if they 'eat less and move more'. For some of those people, getting to a healthy BMI reverses the metabolic diseases, meaning that insulin and other hormones are behaving again how they were meant to. This means it is possible for them to correct any small weight increases with slight diet adjustments in a way that never worked for them when they were obese. For these people WLIs have helped to address the cause.

I thought I lightly browsed WLI threads frequently (issues are slightly work-related) yet I haven't noticed the "so many people against" sentiments at all. Maybe I just filter out pointless negativity.

I was afraid that people may put too much faith into WLI and it would be so demoralising to try it and not find it as effective as you wanted... but then I also reasoned that of course the WLI were not only tested in the demographics on MN who report using them: MNers who use WLI have the resources to pay and paying means they are extra invested in making the WLI work.

If you got WLI for free as part of a medical experiment, and yet all the problems that would stop you being able to pay are still in your life, I could imagine the WLI being a lot less effective : so then that explains why WLI seem so effective for people who can pay compared to when WLI were tested in randomised experiments. Also, I suspect the avg MNer has fewer health problems and lower start BMI than the average person in the RCTs: this means that the average paying MNer is less overwhelmed by the factors that caused their obesity.

I wonder if making WLI Not Free for most leads to the most benefits: people will try harder to make WLI a success if they invested their money in getting the WLI.

Posting on this thread shows that you have an interest in this topic, and if so, it's worth properly reading about WLI. It's pretty incredible actually. I used to think the same as you (that the jabs were an appetite suppressant only), but have since found out this is not the case. The appetite suppressant part is actually a side effect of what they do.

It is actually true that many people simply can't eat the same amount as the person next to them, because of many reasons, but insulin resistance being one of them. WLI help to regulate insulin levels, making it possible to lose weight on a calorie deficit, where previously it would have been exceptionally difficult. Of course, being obese in the first place can then create this issue, making it a vicious circle, but it's certainly not always obesity that causes it. Insulin resistance can be one more of an issue as we get older, for example.

WLI also have many other ways of helping the body lose weight in a calorie deficit, to do with hormones and metabolism. I wish I were able to explain it all properly, but off the top of my head, I can't unfortunately. I have seen other posters explain it brilliantly on other threads. Hopefully one of them might take pity on me and expand??

I’d be on them if I could be

Absolutely!

I meant on a societal level, not individual - there will always be people with specific conditions and specific needs, but in general while people successfully tackle their own weight loss (and well done them, however they do it, WLI included) Nestle, Mondelez, Unilever, PepsiCo, McDonalds and every supermarket chain does their best to make profits from the next wave of people who will need to turn to WLI.

Those are poor arguments and a smokescreen. You are either fat and can't afford them or are slim and resent the fatties that now manage to loose weight.

The long term effects of obesity are pretty clear and it is also clear that most obese people will never be not obese. So with a WLI you really have nothing to loose.

Went to my gym induction session this morning. I’ve been on WLIs for nearly 2 years. Lost 4 stone but have plateaued for a long time. Feel confident enough in myself to brave exercising for the first time in a really really long time. WLIs have given me that confidence.

I think they're absolutely fantastic for individuals that have really struggled all their lives (my DH is one of them) and the NHS.

I am worried about it causing societal pressure to be thin again though, particularly among young girls. You only have to look at the Osbornes to see how WLI can be abused. I can see it becoming fashionable to take them even when you are a healthy weight.

I am in my 40s, 5'6 and never been over 10 stone even when pregnant. I used to really struggle with an ED through my 20s. I will never not be weird about food and will always 'feet fat'. I try to eat well and stay fit. I am trying to resist the urge to want to try WLI if I can get my hands on them.

Getting hold of them will get easier with time.

I think our bodies are much more automatic and controlled by hormones than we like to think. Battling against them is exhausting and the moment one relaxes conscious control the default returns.

Take DH. Just very slowly gaining weight over time. Eating healthy stuff, but presumably slightly too much, slightly too often.

Started on lowest dose of the meds and the process has reversed. Now instead of slowly gaining weight he is slowly losing it.

Consciously he hasn't made any changes other than trying to eat healthy food which what he was doing already. Tbh I haven't noticed much change either. Must be on the level of one less potato with dinner etc.

I haven’t used it but think generally it’s a game changer.

Hard to say really. A lot of people do gain a lot of weight on this particular medication. I still went to the gym, cooked from scratch etc. Possibly had more carb cravings though, which WLIs have definitely stopped.

Interesting points 🤔

@lljkk I think that's a good point also, people devalue free things (see NHS appointments). Paying for something, and making sacrifices to do so, does invest people heavily in the outcomes. That's a good thing though, adds in further motivation.

I would love to pay and have a great result on them, but I can't seem to get along with them, it's not a moral issue for me, it's very very hard in an obesogenic environment with very poor food quality inherent in our Western diets to control this just by 'eating less', or I've found it so, anyway.