Am I storing up problems by letting him eat whatever he wants?

[foggytea]

Hi. First post and already regretting how exposed this feels, but here goes.

I have a DS who turned 4 in November. He’s my youngest. I also have two older children and they were never like this with food, which is why I’m questioning myself so much.

Some days he eats constantly and asks for food non stop. Other days he barely eats anything at all and refuses most of what I offer. On the days he wants specific things, I usually just give in and give him exactly what he’s asked for. I know how that sounds written down.

He’s always been very strong willed. If he wants something and doesn’t get it, he has full on meltdowns. Crying, shouting, throwing himself on the floor, screaming for the food he’s asked for. If I try to redirect or offer something else, he will flat out refuse to eat anything at all. He will happily go hungry rather than eat something he hasn’t chosen.

When he was a baby he had breathing issues and was on nebulisers on and off until he was about 3. He’s fine now, but I think food became the one area he had some say in very early on, and I’ve never really reset that dynamic.

He refuses all vegetables. I mean all of them. Won’t touch them. If they’re on his plate he pushes them off or says yuck and won’t eat anything else on the plate either. Fruit is hit and miss. He’ll eat grapes sometimes, maybe banana, but most fruit gets refused. If I offer him food instead of him asking for it, he usually says no and then later has a meltdown because he’s hungry but still won’t accept what’s on offer.

He’s not potty trained yet and yes I know at 4 that’s late, we are trying.

He is on the chubby side. Solid, chunky, whatever word fits. Not enormous, but definitely bigger than my older two were at this age.

I wrote down what he’s eaten the last few days and it looks dreadful. But it’s also realistic.

Food log:

Monday:
Breakfast: large bowl of chocolate hoops with full fat milk. Offered porridge first which he refused.
Mid morning: bottle of warm milk
Snack: pack of pom bears
Lunch: offered chicken and veg wraps, refused completely. Ended up with white bread cheese sandwich with butter and a yoghurt tube
Snack: two chocolate digestive biscuits after asking repeatedly
Dinner: fish fingers x3, oven chips. Beans were on the plate but untouched.
After bath: bottle of milk and a chocolate mousse

Tuesday:
Breakfast: refused cereal and porridge. Eventually had two slices of white toast with Nutella
Snack: apple slices offered, ate a couple then refused the rest
Lunch: offered pasta with hidden veg, refused. Had chicken nuggets x4 and smiley faces
Snack: small bag of ready salted Walkers
Dinner: offered bolognese, refused. Had plain pasta with a bit of butter, a few mouthfuls only
Later: meltdown because he was hungry but refused sandwiches and fruit. Eventually had one slice of toast with butter
Before bed: bottle of milk

Wednesday:
Breakfast: bowl of honey cornflakes with milk
Snack: strawberry yoghurt
Lunch: ham sandwich, cheese string. Cucumber offered and refused
Snack: small chocolate bar
Dinner: sausage and mash. Carrots offered, untouched
Pudding: vanilla ice cream
Later: bottle of milk while watching TV

Thursday:
Breakfast: refused breakfast
Mid morning: bottle of milk
Snack: two rich tea biscuits
Lunch: nuggets again (I know), handful of grapes which he did eat after initially saying no
Snack: pack of pom bears
Dinner: frozen pepperoni pizza, ate two slices. Salad offered and ignored
Later: asked for cereal so had a small bowl of chocolate cereal

Today so far:
Breakfast: one slice of toast with butter
Snack: yoghurt pouch
Lunch: offered jacket potato with cheese and sweetcorn, refused. Ended up with half a ham sandwich
Snack: small bag of cheese and onion Walkers after a meltdown because I said no at first

Seeing it written down makes me feel awful. It’s beige, processed, sugary, and very much driven by what he demands rather than what I offer. I do offer other foods first most of the time, but he just refuses and then escalates until I give in or he eats nothing.

He’s very active, always running about, but he is still chubbier than his peers. I don’t want to create food issues or make him feel controlled, but I also feel like I’ve lost control completely and I’m parenting from fear of a meltdown.

Am I being unreasonable to let this continue? Do I need to ride out the meltdowns and stop giving in even if he refuses to eat?

Please be honest but not cruel. This is my first thread and I’m already bracing myself

It sounds really tough - have you considered whether he may be autistic? Neurodiverse people often show these sorts of habits around food.

Gently, is there any reason he’s having bottles of milk at 4? That’s a lot of extra calories and probably very filling for him meaning he might then not need much food afterwards and quite unusual for him to still be drinking from a bottle at his age.

There are YouTube channels which friends with similar issues have used with their DC to try and combat similar issues and they’ve had some success with allowing the children to watch those and then choose new foods to try.

Have you been to your GP?

I think this will be a lot journey of trial and error and doing your best and it won’t be easy so I really feel for you

I had a nicu baby too and also treat her different to my eldest but a few things jump out here. First stop the bottles. At 3 he’s too old for them and you’re doing his teeth no good.

when you say you offer foods, do you ask him if he wants them or make it and he rejects so then you offer sth else. My youngest is 4 and it’s a rule she has to try everything on her plate every time because children’s taste buds change constantly. It can take multiple times trying before they like something.

does he go to any childcare? How does he eat there?

Tbh yea I think you do need to ride the meltdowns I know it’s hard but he is getting very little nutrition. Could you put the food in the middle of the table and let him choose so he has control but only from a choice of healthier options? I don’t think he needs that amount of sugary snacks/ bottles of milk. Is he just filling up on milk so then he doesn’t want food? Really hard and I’m not judging as honestly I can see how it happens but I do think you need to take back the control

It's tough. I always envied parents with children who would eat a colourful range of fruit and veg and anything else they were given. My two year old niece would eat olives while my DC wouldn't eat most things. This despite all my resolutions and making home cooked food from scratch.
In the end I resolved that a vitamin is still a vitamin if it has ketchup on. If the only fruit or veg they will eat is grapes or peas then just buy grapes and peas.
It got better by around age 9 or so. They are both healthy fully functioning adults now who eat most things, one is a bit of a foodie.

A couple of things stand out. Bottles of milk at age four might be unusual but quite honestly it's nourishing and I can see why you would. The crisps are probably not helping.
A ham sandwich isn't bad as an alternative to a jacket potato.

At this point I would try your best to get the full range of nutrients into him even if it's not very varied.

You need to stop by in the crap, which has no nutritional value

Suggest you start cutting down the sugary ultra processed food for starters. Milk is good but in a cup would be more age appropriate. Nobody needs chocolate bars , Nutella, crisps and artificially sweet yoghurt tubes. Offer up toast with more savoury options, butter, cheese, eggs etc. He's not going to like it and will likely get very upset but you will be doing him and the family a favour by ensuring he is getting a nutritional diet. If you don't buy it then you can't give in to the demands for it.

I think there’s a middle ground. Many children are fussy and oftentimes it’s best not to make mealtimes a battleground and accept they might only eat part of the plate, refuse vegetables, eat plain pasta, have a small repertoire of “acceptable” foods; and you keep on offering but don’t make a huge deal of it when it’s rejected, and just accept that it probably won’t last forever and not many of us know adults who only eat cubes of cheese and jam sandwiches. But buying junk like Nutella, chocolate mousse, biscuits, smiley faces, chocolate cereal, crisps etc really isn’t helping - of course he’s going to whine and tantrum for it, he knows it’s there and that you’ll give in eventually. Cut back on having it in the house, he can’t have what isn’t there.

He reminds me a bit of my youngest. He would somedays eat everything in sight, and then somedays virtually nothing.

We learnt over the years that it was best to trust his appetite, but continued to offer consistently good foods. So we would offer something like spaghetti Bol, which we knows he liked, and if he ate it great, but if he ate a few mouthfuls then that was okay too. We didn’t offer anything else; mainly because there was no point, if he wasn’t hungry he wouldn’t eat. It made meal times a lot less fraught to not have to plead with him to eat.

He is now 14, very slim, fit and healthy. He is very good at regulating his own appetite, and will always stop when he is full. Something I wish I could do! And he is still the same today, sometimes he will eat and eat and eat, some days very little. He is still a little fussy, but in the main will eat most things.

Why would any child choose the sensible options if they know sweet sugary cereals will be provided if they make enough fuss. I struggle to resist sugary treats as an adult so I wouldn’t expect a child to manage. You really need to ditch all of that.

Remove the sugary stuff first and give him a choice of 2 things you know he eats for each meal.
eg
Do you want toast and butter or yogurt for breakfast
sausages or fish fingers for dinner

Don’t worry about fruit and veg. Put some on a plate on the table and take no interest in whether or not he eats it.

It doesn’t matter if he eats a limited range or has the same meals on repeat at the moment you just need to take the pressure off you both.

Don’t use bottles or you’ll damage his teeth. If he wants milk put it in a cup.

First, don't panic! He isn't having a great diet yet, but he's eating and you are aware of it. He'll get there. Don't let food become a major battleground. Keep trying, keep offering healthier alternatives and trying out the advice available, but it doesn't have to be sorted overnight.

My Ds2 was very similar, with a restricted diet and also very strong willed around food. We gradually found healthy foods he liked and stuck with them. He only ate carrots and peas as veg for 18 years! He phoned me up when he was 21 to proudly announce that he had just eaten a runner bean! Now late 20s he's still gradually introducing himself to new foods - broccoli and mushrooms recently added - and is cutting down the sugar for himself.

A friend had a good strategy. She made smiley faces scorecards and would play 'Taste testing'. She started with foods her dd liked - 4 types of fish fingers. 4 types of bread. 4 slices of different types of apple. 4 toppings for toast/crumpets. They taste tested them together, then bought the 'winner' for next week. She then expanded the repertoire - different berries/flavours of soup/ways of cooking egg Her dd loved the game - and the control over what they bought - though she was a bit older than your ds.

Hth.

I am very definitely not at expert and had parents who meant well, but fed us strange diets, leading to yoyo dieting by me my whole life. In contrast I have by sheer luck managed to raise two slim, healthy children who have a very good relationship with food. When they were picky eaters I would make food for example (using things your DC may eat) chicken nuggets, cucumber sticks, tomatoes, cut up peppers, wraps, Pom bears for example and put them all on the table for the child to pick. I would make no comment on the choices so they may not take any veg the first two times but by time three they just would. I would add on each occasion something new for example olives, or beetroot and just say this is X and leave it there. Over time both DC (now teens) would try most things and this week will eat pork/broccoli/pea and noodle stir fry, paella, soup, ramen bowls and gnocci for dinners. All homemade and with veg in the meal or salad on the side. It took time. They eat a fair amount of puddings and chocolate but are slim and healthy. They seem able to regulate their food intake in a way I can’t for myself. I would try and remove the battle and just set it out in bowls or on plates and let him pick for himself. I expect too much milk so he is filling up on that not food. Choosing for themselves made a big difference. I also often make for snacks in school hols a little bowl of fruit (several small pieces of something rather than a whole apple for example) and then 1 biscuit on side and some nuts or a cheese and cracker so it’s a mix of things and they don’t think a snack is just biscuits.

He will happily go hungry rather than eat something he hasn’t chosen.

He won't "happily" go hungry through, will he? He'll have tantrums and meltdowns until he gets the food he wants, which is the processed stuff.

Unless he has some kind of additional needs (which everyone will automatically assume he has, because it's mumsnet), you need to just offer him stuff that's good for him and try to get him to a healthy weight.

He doesn't need crisps, he needs a vegetable.

And why is he still having bottles of milk at 4, multiple times throughout the day? You're treating him like a baby. Don't keep him as an infant.

Hi, I think you need to stop the bottles of full fat milk. Firstly he shouldn’t be drinking from a bottle at age 4 and secondly he doesn’t need full fat anymore especially if he is overweight. Move to semi skimmed milk. Also try to get him involved in preparing food. My daughter used to be like this and after getting her to help me make a pizza one day, she tried it. Similarly I got her interested in helping me prepare sandwiches, curries etc and slowly she tried more foods. She will now atleast try anything. Also you really need to work on toilet training which is harder with boys than girls but they get there. I assume he will start school next sept so needs to be ready by then. And whatever you do don’t send him a packed lunch. When he has no choice but to eat the school dinner he will improve. My daughter really improved after joining school with regards eating different foods.

There are some very helpful instagram pages; ‘kids eating in color’ or something like that which gives lots of good advice in taking small steps towards relaxing a child’s (and adult’s) stress towards new foods. Definitely worth a shot. Remember- need to have a food 10-30 times or so to become used to it. Do some food play. Make the dino volcano with mash and gravy and turkey dinos and brocolli trees; show it can be fun and distract from the power struggle. Make music or art from different foods to start positive associations. Texture and calmness are all connected to the end product of getting kids to eat things :) making some baking and cooking with different things

Sorry but I think you are setting him up for all sorts of problems. Let him go hungry, and ride out the meltdowns. You have to reset his diet.

edit to add that you really need to play hardball here and be more stubborn than him. Think about the food you have in the house and make sure you don’t have junk options in the house at all.

I’d stop the milk, he is filling up on that

I know parenting is really hard but I would try to just not have a lot of the food you list in the house at all. If there are only healthish options he will end up eating better than this.

Too much sugary foods, he knows that's what he'll get so you need to break the vicious circle. Sooner rather than later is better, as hard as that will be. If he's already overweight now, you need to act now rather than later.

I have a 5 yo who's not a great eater. It was around 4 that we started to be a bit less flexible about meal times.

She has 20 food allergies (delayed so give her digestive symptoms) had severe silent reflux which took until 3.5 to get under control and only since she turned 5 weeks have been able to reduce her meds. She was very slow to wean and was 20 months before she ate enough to drop formula.

We started by asking her what she wanted on her plate before we dished it up. If she rejected dinner then she had a choice of toast or plain pasta, olive oil chick peas and peas (her favourite meal!). She often doesn't like sauces so we ask that before we mix the pasta and sauce. After a while we dropped offering an alternative meal but offered adjustments to that meal.

We try to match what we offer with what she will eat at that time. This really has been the biggest thing that's helped. If she is in a plain mood there's nothing to be gained from trying to force a sauce on her. We have a little jug and put some of the sauce in there if she wants to try it. It has stopped meal times becoming a battle ground and when they are calmer she is more willing to try different things.

When she is eating well we try to push her more with different foods. Constructed at the table meals go down well. We don't worry so much these days if she doesn't eat anything at a meal time, at 3 she was probably only having 1 meal a day at the weekend! We had a bad period where she didn't eat anything and complained of being tired, we couldn't even convince her to eat some biscuits or cakes we made. It turned out the new chef at her nursery hadn't been checking ingredients properly if they were labelled "vegan" or "free from" her allergies aren't just to dairy. She was having stomach ache and didn't feel well which was then why she wasn't wanting to eat. The day before it came to light I had her at the drs as I was worried about her not eating.

If she hasn't eaten a meal we try to limit the snacks afterwards but make the next meal something that is very reliably eaten.

She is not a huge snacker anyway but will eat bread sticks and water biscuits/crackers all day if given free reign. If she starts refusing meals and but asking for these a lot before and after a meal we do 2-3 days with no snacks. This is usually enough to stimulate her appetite for meals and then we can reintroduce some snacks

I have very low "food noise" as people now seem to call it and I think she is the same. Food is very much fuel and I think she sees eating as a chore.

I'd say that you don't have to tackle it all at once. If there are things you are unhappy him eating as much as he is control this by modifying how often you buy them. If you want to stop the battles and reduce the amount of times food is refused be realistic about what is going to be eaten and gentle push what is eaten on good days/weeks. Get them to engage with cooking and dishing up.

I would move the time of the milk, my daughter needs about 300ml of oat milk a day to get enough calcium and iodine. She has some with breakfast or dinner, after school and before bed. She gets 75-100 ml during the day and 150ml before bed.

I’d turn down porridge if I was going to be given Nutella on toast. I’d also turn down pasta if I was going to get nuggets and a chocolate mousse.

I have a terrible 2yo eater, she has days she’ll eat loads and days she eats like a sparrow. Shes quite particular on her likes. She loves spag bol so I’m not ashamed that she’s had tha 3 nights in a row because I batch cook. I’m also not ashamed that some nights she just has a picky plate of meats, cheese, cucumber, plain crackers and then some yoghurt. She hates being sat down to eat so I’m also not ashamed I often let her roam around with her snack if she’ll just bloody eat. She’s a nightmare eater and it’s often commented on by relatives.

However I do have a rule where I offer very limited options, if she’s picked something from my options - that’s the only thing I’ll offer or she’ll go hungry. If a few hours later she wants a snack, she gets fruit of her choosing or low/no sugar yoghurt.

Offering loads of fun items like Nutella or chocolate mousse is probably fuelling the tantrums OP. It could be ND but it could also be lack of follow through and too many choices.

Excellent advice.

My DD sounds v similar and you can tell she finds food monotonous and more of a chore than enjoyment. She didn’t start actually eating until 20 months which is why I ended up carrying on BF for so long as everyone was terrifying me about her lack of food intake.

If you haven’t had a low food interest child it’s not something you’d understand. But I stand by my previous comment upthread that offering too many things like nuggets and choccy mousse may get them to eat but it isn’t the answer.

You really do need to make an effort on this OP, spoiling him with food will damage his health well into adulthood. He can’t have chocolate hoops for breakfast if you don’t buy them, nobody with kids needs that shit in their house. He won’t ’happily go hungry’, he strops because he knows as well as you do that you will give in, and particularly on the days he eats all day you no he can manage less food. He’s 4, it’s time to start riding out the tantrums and parenting him, it’s not a standard toddler thing anymore. I’m not saying he will become an amazing eater but any small changes will make a difference.
so in answer, yes YABU and it wouldn’t be being cruel or creating food issues, it would just be parenting him because he’s too little to make sensible choices, it’s your job.

Theres lots of research/literature about the addictive properties of up foods so don't be too hard on yourself. Pre school kids can be fussy at best of times but really you need to suck up the tantrums and remove alot of the options. Full fat milk bottles will be providing alot of the calories he needs I would cut these down and definitely use cups rather thsn bottles they affect teeth and speech development with prolonged use

Ok firstly relax a bit.
He's learned to get what he wants.
Just don't have in the house the unhealthy foods so he doesn't see them leave a pot of chopped up fruit that he can help himself to. Ps. No 4 ye old has every died of malnutrition from eating chicken nuggets.
Get rid of the chocolate cereal etc if they aren't there he can't demand them