To think more people should be intentional about who they have children with?

[WryJadeWren]

I honestly don’t get how some people don’t seem to respect their own wombs or futures when choosing who to have kids with.
It’s not just about “accidents happen”, we all know contraception exists. And bringing a child into the world with someone who’s clearly not ready, reliable or respectful can have lifelong consequences.

AIBU to think that more people should think long and hard about who they’re parenting with, not just who they’re dating?

I suspect that if every child were born to a willing responsible father the human race would die out rapidly. There are very few men who both want children and are willing to do 50% of what it takes to raise them.

I have to agree op. But I will say this. There is a world of difference in having a child with someone who doesn’t have children than someone who has already proven themselves to be unfit.
First time parents don’t know how good/bad their partner will be. Women who have a child to someone who already has children, well I can’t sympathise with them at all. You absolutely knew the score.
I think there is so much pressure on women to have children that that becomes their main focus. They can’t/don’t rationalise it. They have an image in their mind of how things will be.
Women who want to be sterilised are met with opposition, and that needs changing.
Men often just go along with becoming a parent to satisfy their current partner, after all they have little to lose. Often women don’t listen when a man says he isn’t ready to be a father. It can be hard as men can father children later in life and don’t think of the consequences for the child.

I dislike the way single mothers ar portrayed in the media - It should be an absent father family.

If we change the language we might change the outcomes

We won’t because we decided some time ago that shame is a negative, destructive concept, hence nobody has any any more. People are very condemning of criminals, Class A drug users, sex workers. Does that change the outcome? No, because people simply don’t care. We could run headlines about this tomorrow and the men would continue to be feckless. Only option is for women to protect themselves as much as possible.

I sort of agree, but more from a different angle I think. I'm quite old fashioned and would never have entertained the idea of having children before being married. I know marriage isn't an absolute guarantee of anything, and marriages can and do end. But if a man isn't committed to you, he isn't a man to be having children with in my eyes.

And then you see it on here frequently with men who are just shit at being grown ups, still wanting to be getting smashed every weekend, doing no housework, taking every opportunity to be out with their mates rather than with their partner. And women are seemingly shocked that they turned out to be lazy, immature absent fathers too.

100000% OP!

So much more consideration needs to go into procreation than it currently does. I feel most people muddle through or have the attitude “well, that’d be nice.”

I really enjoy reading the threads right here on Mumsnet tbh on parenting and relationships. It’s eye opening. I don’t think enough people have done enough forward thinking into what raising a child could or will truly involve, and what could happen if things go wrong.

Controversial but honestly I agree - it baffles me why women would have a baby with someone who's from another country and then wonder why their kid has been stolen. You should think long and hard and know someone before bringing any child into the equation. Can't think of anything worse than dragging kids through a split family and worrying about who your 'ex' is introducting them to etc.

New year resolution for you. Stop being judgemental.

Yes!

My parents were from two different countries.

Aftey they divorced, there were a lot of court battles. And I was taken by one parent to another country in a parental child abduction.

My other parent (the one left behind) killed themself.

Its definitely taught me to not have a child with someone who comes from a different country to me.

Never bothered eg Boris Johnson.

I think sometimes people don’t know, but you often can actually tell if someone is going to be vaguely responsible. People rarely change that much. The reality is chances are as a woman you’ll be left holding the baby, yeah a shit father should absolutely be held accountable for his own actions (I favour prison for people who don’t pay their CS etc) but ultimately women and kids suffer regardless.

also think we need to start pushing male contraception more, there were trails but apparently men didn’t like the side effects. Who gives a shit, make it available so men can’t say they didn’t choose to have their kids.

The Marriage Act was created to force men to take responsibility for the children they procreated and stop them being a financial burden on local community.

Unfortunately the sweetener in the deal was that it legally made slaves of wives, and generations of women fought first for emancipation, then liberation, then equality.

The current situation is that there is no social, legal, financial or moral imperative to force women to remain with abusive, or useless men.

But throughout the centuries we still haven’t found a reasonable solution for the deadbeat dad problem. Instead generation after generation has insisted that it is a problem created by women. What exactly is it women are supposed to have done wrong changes. Respectability, morality and nagging are temporarily out of fashion so now it’s down to recklessness, poor judgement and stupidity.

Great to see the internalised misogyny is still flourishing op.

You cant know exactly what someone will ve like. But you can plan for things

There are so many cases of parental child abduction to other countries, i would never have a child with someone from another country

Carrie will go from kid's nappies to Boris' but that's their choice.

The sentiment of what the OP said is very true, break up with someone and potentially never see them again, but if you had a child with them you are tied to them for life and must deal with their awful decisions. Who you procreate with really matters to your life and your children's, male or female.

OP, you're being smug and completely unfair.

I'd been with my ex for years. He was a calm, intelligent professional person. Had a much older child by a previous marriage so knew what to expect. Financially sound. Attentive, fun, responsible, loving, Even my family approved which was a miracle. I was as careful and considered as possible.

When ds was three days old, ex morphed. Suddenly I was treated with contempt. DS was 5 days old the first time ex kicked me.

I didn't become a victim. I'd maintained my career, still had my house, was not financially dependent, and after months trying to get ex to behave decently, I was able to take ds, walk away, settle in a new home, resume my single life. I've raised ds by myself, he's a happy well educated, hard working 17yo heading for a good degree. All in all a happy childhood for both of us. I've taken it in my stride.

But trust me, sometimes you simply cannot tell.

My XH was great. Lovely man, we had one baby and he was very hands-on equal partner. So I felt safe in giving up work when we had our second (there was no childcare available (35 years ago now) and she was a very difficult and high needs baby). Almost the very second I handed in my notice - bam, that was it. I was responsible for every single thing in life, and all he had to do was get up and go to work. He refused to help, wouldn't lift a finger in the house, spent his weekends helping his mum.

I don't know where the man I married went, but there was something in me no longer being a working woman that meant I became the lowest of the low as far as he was concerned.

The trouble with this thread and others like it, its going to bring out misguided accuasions of misogyny because people posting on it are the outliers in situations like this. The ones where the bloke presented as reasonable and really keen to have kids and then showed his true colours later

I think what OP is referring to is the amount of children that are born to parents who either have met weeks prior, months prior, have children already, flit from relationship to relationship, have believed all the BS about how previous partners of the bloke have been awful and wont let him see the kids or like someone mentions above, he's going out each weekend getting drunk with his mates and sitting around scratching his balls all day.

Its hardly misogyny to be warning women to protect themselves at all costs.

Female insects put more thought into choosing mates than some female humans on here.

I read a quote once

"People put more thought into what clothes they wear than into what partner they choose".

Agree completely.

Yes we can ‘call out men’ or instigate some kind of ‘culture change’, men won’t give a fuck. Rape, drugs and murder are all shameful yet continue with abandon because they don’t care.

Which leaves 1 option, protecting yourself. That or being a helpless bystander in your own life while the men do whatever they like.

Not quite the same though, is it?

Of course women bear more responsibility, but that doesn’t mean that all men will declare their intentions to be a shit/ absent parent.

I’m assuming you had the benefit of a crystal ball OP.
What sanctimonious judgemental woman blaming crap. Don’t you have anything better to do than worrying about what other people do?

I’ve plainly said upthread this doesn’t apply to women who do their due diligence - and I don’t mean forensic investigating and dating for 15 years beforehand, just ticking off the main indicators. Making sure they have stable employment; no ‘history’ of ‘mental exes’; no previous kids that ‘they don’t see because insert feeble reason; that they don’t seem allergic to housework and know how to cook/hoover/wash up after themselves.

The number of women who post on here about lazy, abusive men who have been awful for years and I’m sat there thinking ‘don’t be pregnant, don’t be pregnant..’ but of course, they are always pregnant.

I’m not surprised children seem so unbalanced, angry and anxious with the absolute mess the foundation of family has become tbh

There are always loads of posts on here of women either TTC or pregnant for the second or third time with a man who is a walking red flag. YANBU.