Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

But you aren’t talking about suffering that happened to others, generally.. You specifically mention suffering that was perpetuated by “our ancestors”.

I said that I didn’t feel bad about anything my ancestors had done. My ancestors didn’t have a particularly great time in life either.

That doesn’t mean I don’t feel sad for what humans experienced in the past.

Do you have any idea just how much suffering has been inflicted on humans by other humans over the past thousands of years?

When my first son was born, I remember being really upset about the millions of babies who were left to die of exposure in antiquity. I have a degree in history, and I’ve been upset about a lot of things that happened to people, especially when it involves mothers and children. Because I can relate to that more.

But do I feel bad about things my ancestors have done? Not at all.

Again, why should I?

She thinks Wales and Scotland are fine, it is specifically England she has a problem with.

Tbf I do agree this is a bit strange.

Why are you lying?

Thats not what you wrote

You wrote, this is a copy and paste:

Because we don't want to repeat the past.
Saying im ashamed of my ancestors actions, is a more norma feeling than saying
'Im so happy that people from England - raped, killed, invaded and colonised many others in the past!"

Nice try at twisting what you said but it’s there in black and white

Scots really went to town on Jamaica.
Wales doesn't come out dandy either, Cardiff was built to handle the imports from the Slavery Triangle and made alot of Welsh people very wealthy.

Yes you did.

Except she did accuse people of saying the latter.

Why are you thanking someone who’s believing your lie?

Because we, right now, still benefit from our ancestors actions.

You can feel how you want. Im just explaining how i and others feel the way we do.

It would be like if my grandfather broke into and robbed a house. He killed the people, stole a huge amount of money and didnt get caught.

I know that I benefitted from his actions.i know that his actions hurt people and hurt generations that came after.

All of us in England, in some way, benefit from what our ancestors did to others in the past.

It wasnt personally our fault. But we can feel bad about what our ancestors did

She didn’t! You are reading it wrong! This is ridiculous

Except this thread is about shame

Do you feel ashamed for what you ancestors will have done to Jews at some point?

On the contrary.

I am thanking her because she told the truth

I think that people who say that they are ashamed to be English because of colonial history are a bit naive and ignorant about the history of other European countries. I wouldn’t think there is one country that doesn’t have something in its past that we wouldn’t think to be ideal today.

Yes the current rise of the far right is a worry, but again, look at other European countries and the United States.

This thread isn’t about feeling sad.

Again with the twisting of words.

Its about feeling embarrassed and ashamed of being a nationality because of what people in the past did.

Thats a world away from feeling sad for those who suffer.

Sorry that doesn’t fit your weird narrative and yet again you’ve been unable to twist what the other half wits of the thread are saying

No. We all know that other European countries colonised other countries.

I think what you’re missing here is that I don’t think English people need to be ashamed of being English. I think England as a whole need to be ashamed of their colonial history, just like I think Belgium, France and every other country need to be ashamed of their histories. But I’m not expecting Jan down the road to be pouring her heart out about every night.

So why are you embarrassed for people who take pride in being English and imply they’re happy with past atrocities? If it’s just about “feeling sad”?

I don't think that we need to be embarrassed to be English OP

you’ve changed your tune!

Well written. I agree.

If you ask people from other countries, they often describe the stereotype of English people as "being cold and unemotional"

And I’ve met dozens of people who for example would describe the French as rude.

Bur smart people ignore those trot out odd stereotypes and write them of as being narrow minded and not worth listening to

No, I clarified.

I have consistently written that we don't need to feel personally resonsible for what happened.

I have written that I feel bad about what happened in the past.

Too much navel gazing.

Don’t even go there.

My ancestors died in the potatoe famine. Others had to flee Ireland.

I’ve had ancestors hung for stealing bread so that their children didn’t starve.

My ancestory consists of alcoholism, domestic violence and high levels of child mortality due to poverty and dire living conditions.

My ancestors somehow managed to survive living in fucking slums in Scotland

The main thing that I have benefited from are the Liberal Welfare Reforms 1906 - 1914.

That counts for everyone in the world.
Are you embarrassed when people say they’re proud to be Scottish?

The Orwell quote posted several pages back pretty much covers this. It was, and still is, a very astute observation of the modern left. It must be exhausting living your life through the constant lens of hand wringing shame and guilt over actions of people who have been dead for centuries.