Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

We are looking at what England did wrong in the past

Why, though?

It’s been done to death.

I'm not even English - I’m Scottish - and I’m sick of hearing about “what England did wrong”.

People really do need to gain some perspective on this, before the end up like the OP - full of self loathing and rejection of herself.

Humanity’s history is a dark one - it’s not restricted to England, and you really need to wonder why anyone would want to constantly solely focus on 0.01% of that.

The comment about Ireland isn’t deflection at all. There have been multiple comments about how clean Ireland’s past is, which is laughable.

You might well know some Irish people who acknowledge what was done to women and children, but don’t you dare deny that many, many people were complicit in what happened and that it has actively been covered up for decades.

Why should anyone accept being lectured by those from, or told they are worse than, a country who saw fit steal the babies of unmarried women and throw them in sewers?

I think you’ll find this thread has actually become a pseudo history lesson about England’s past. Everyone is happy to talk about it and indeed our past is embedded in our education system - warts and all.

What we don’t want to do is grovel and apologise for it.

You’ve confused the two.

Why do you say like a war zone?

She didnt write that she feels personally responsible.

She wrote that we have an embarassing history.

That was already covered on the relevant thread. Aside from those with an agenda, everyone agreed it was irrelevant whether it were the left or right who were (mostly) to blame. It was also agreed that the buck stops with the current PM.

So do you think those unashamed of being English are happy about rape? If not then why did you say it?

We are learning from the past. Hence living in a free liberal and tolerant country.

With action, not with self flagellation that our ancestors were not perfect.

I'm amazed her post is still standing.

No. You are talking about a need in yourself. Maybe you speak to your neighbours in similar terms but to what end? Do you enjoy making them feel responsible when all
logic suggests they are not? What makes you so anxious to make ordinary people carry the can for the decisions of powerful people? Something nasty in that I feel

"Everyone is happy to talk about it"

On this thread, very very few people have been happy to talk about it

Its standing because its, of course, fine.

The poster later on twisted my words.

No she said she is embarrassed and ashamed to be English. I mean it’s in the title.

Twisting words because you’ve had your arse. handed to you doesn’t wash on a forum where people can read.

Morally it’s an asymmetric issue.

You can’t expect the Republic to have no say in taking on the economic burden of NI.

But you can’t expect the Northern Irish to have their future dictated by others. What if the majority in NI vote to stay in the UK, but overall, when taking votes from the Republic into account, the majority vote is to join the Republic? Why should a person in Cork force a person in Belfast to join the Republic? That would no more be fair than a person in Wolverhampton forcing the people of Northern Ireland to stay or leave the UK.

You mean very few people have been as apologetic and baiting as yourself. How dare English people defend the country that gets beat up on more than any other. I can't work out whether it's just envy.

My quote function isn’t working that last post was to @Linnelaura2

She wished she had some Scottish heritage instead, because the people of Scotland had no involvement whatsoever in the British Empire or the colonisation of Ireland.

I do agree that people should talk more about the past, there seems to be a lot of ignorance.

Im sort of the same to be honest. I’m 86 % south east English and Northern Europe, included in that is areas of northern England, border Scot’s.
8% Welsh
6% Germany

my small Norwegian and Danish ancestry disappeared in the latest update.

My Englishness goes back hundreds of years, all in the same area which is fascinating

it doesn’t help that Welsh and Scottish people hate us too as well as being made to feel ashamed of our heritage due to far right and farage etc

However I’m living not far from where my Welsh ancestors come from in wales and all my children are Welsh,, I’ve also lived in Wales since I was a child so I do feel more Welsh than English and funnily enough could speak more Welsh than my Welsh husband 🤣

I did find a fair bit of Yorkshire ancestry too which I’m quite proud of.

I agree.

People can read what I wrote.

In all fairness what she said was perfectly fine, it was other posters who are twisting it and taking out a large chunk of it to make it seem worse.

It’s so fucking offensive.

Did she not realise women who HAVE been raped - even dirty English women - will have read it?

No, you’re confused. Very few people are happy to be ashamed of it.

RTFT - it’s full of English history.

But I’ll bite - what do you want to talk about exactly? What do you feel people don’t want to talk about?

She said she's embarrassed to be English. I didn't say she wrote she was personally responsible, I said it isn't how she behaves and what she has done.. so my point is if she doesnt behave in the way of her ancestors theres little point being embarrassed to the point of needing to post on MN.

Sure. You should write to the victims and their families and tell them that they should be grateful. Why don't you start with the victims of Bloody Sunday, then maybe move onto the victims of the Ballymurphy massacre?

Oh dear.

I didn’t.

I quoted you directly and asked you to clarify what you meant when you talked about people not being ashamed of being English and the implication they say things like they’re “happy about rape”

It’s probably standing because it hasn’t been reported. I didn’t report it as I feel you should be shown up for your vile comment