Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

Which bits were not polite other than the fuck off post?

I'm mainly English and Scottish - with a little Polish, Swedish and Italian which is strange as my great grandparents were both German but no mention of that on my DNA Test

Recent studies show that the number of people on Northern Ireland that want to leave the Uk is rising a lot.

But why? Should Welsh people feel badly about Lloyd George? Should the descendants of Scotsman nor living in what they will always think of as Ulster think badly of themselves? Yours is a strange contention

Because of the current political climate. Which I have explained, several times. It’s so strange how just because somebody doesn’t share the same view as you, you view them as unintelligent. Do you also view people who prefer orange squash over blackcurrant squash as unintelligent, because you prefer blackcurrant?

And that is why many English and Welsh people would be fine if we gave it back. The stumbling block is the people of NI.

If I could go back to 1169, I would definitely advise Henry II not to invade. A thousand years later though, I don’t feel any direct guilt or shame about being English over it.

Why should anyone with no links to NI care?
What about all the other countries with a less than perfect history? Should we all think of them? Where is the line?

And what is there to care about exactly? People who want a united ireland can want it and lobby for it. What do you want random English people to do exactly?

“England believe they own Northern Ireland “
The Ulster Plantation occurred several centuries ago . Do you think that the Unionist descendants of the ( primarily Scottish- not English) early plantation settlers should have NO say on the future of NI on the basis of something that their forebears did centuries ago?

If so - perhaps you also might think that the people of Leinster are responsible for the King of Leinster who triggered the entire Anglo Irish psycho drama by inviting Henry II and Strongbow to Ireland to help him defeat his Irish rivals ( the English overstayed their welcome after this foolish invitation)

History is not black and white. The innocent and guilty come from both sides.

Its not strange. I see the results of what happened

I still live in a country that has benefitted from damaging other countries in the past.

I dont feel good that my country has more while other countries have less.

I think that your lack of empathy and compassion is strange

Well it’s a good job they live in a democracy with a range of political parties to vote for then isn’t it.
As an English person I certainly won’t be hand wringing over it

you didn’t answer the question @Linnelaura2

Absolutely

Of course it played a role but not in the sense that France is in ANY WAY responsible for what ensued. Because by that logic, every other country that did nothing is even more ‘responsible’ and we know that isn’t true either.

Other countries sometimes have less because of their own inept or corrupt leadership

Glass half empty thinking. So depressing.

I don't live in Scotland.

I care about what goes on in Scotland. I am interested in what happens in Scotland.

I have heard English people say before "we don't care what happens in Northern ireland. We never think about it"

Why?
I think that it is a nasty thing to say

Watch these two videos and give yourself an uppercut.

In some ways, whether you find yourself in Wales, Scotland or England is a little irrelevant, the point is that you find yourself now on this beautiful, flawed, magical island. Shout out to our Irish neighbours as well.

We worked together to create parliamentary democracy and a national health service. Culture, creativity and connection is intrinsic to our culture(s). We have so much to be proud of and so much to figure out.

We are not the only race to have colonised & enslaved others.

It’s interesting that people talk about Ireland and how English people should feel shame because of the past.

But there are recent atrocities in Ireland that people who are still alive are actively responsible for, and yet the call for their responsibilities are never heard.

Stealing children, killing women and babies, enslaving women for decades because they had sex or even if they were raped as a child, covering up pedophilia and extraordinary levels of violence and abuse that leaders in Ireland refuse to apologise for or do anything about. Isn’t your energy better spent holding these people to account and getting justice for living women and men who are traumatised beyond belief? Rather than expecting the English to grovel and scrape for things that happened centuries ago?

This

Oh if we are blaming the French for stuff, as a Yorkshire woman I am still waiting for reparations from the people of Caen for the Norman invasion and the harrying of the north.

I second this. I’m in my mid 30s, English and I can count on one finger the number of times the politics of Ireland has been discussed with me in real life. That ‘once’ is because an Irish friend mentioned it while discussing something upsetting she witnessed while growing up in Belfast (our discussion was about violent crime in general).

I’m sorry if it’s insulting, but truly the English are absolutely apathetic as to whether Ireland is unified or not. The government may take a different view but then they’re forced to confront it, the English public generally see it as none of their business at all.

That analogy doesn’t work.
Nuance isn’t your strong suit is it? I don’t think people with different views to me are unintelligent. That’s not what I said.

I said if you automatically jump to ‘racist’ when someone says they’re proud to English then I don’t really value your opinion. I’d find you narrow minded and not particularly intelligent. I’d think you were either unwilling or unable to understand the nuance and complexity of the situation.

😆 As a Yorkshire woman you may well have some Scandinavian blood!

This. Most if not all in England are not bothered about Ni, I'm not and would absolutely support it all being Ireland. Thing is the unionists, isn't that what all the gang warfare/'troubles' was all about nationalists versus unionists?