Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

She said “I’m so happy about rape” re people who are proud of being English. What a disgusting comment to make

There was a vote, and they weren’t the majority.

I feel for them, I have a lot of Irish ancestry (Munster though), and I’m fully aware of the issues. I’m also still sore about the Brexit vote. But in a democracy, if you lose the vote, you lose it. That’s the system.

I don’t think that makes you racist. I think nationalism is a problem and at this point people are confusing patriotism with nationalism. I also enjoy English traditions, and I like living here. I also feel sad that people like Tommy Robinson have made it difficult for people to feel like they can be proud of being English.

Do you think its a good thing - that they don't give Northern Ireland a second thought?

Or is it arrogance and rudeness and lack of care?

So tired of seeing Mumsnetters justifying themselves when it comes to being proud English. Why oh why does Reform and Tommy Robinson make their way into every single one of this never ending type threads. There is more to being proud English than those two markers.

There was a vote to end the war. Not a vote on whether NI should be a part of the UK or not.

Because you think that people who are proud to be English must be Tommy Robinson fans. Painting everyone with the same brush is a marker of someone who is hard of thinking

No. As the other poster also has written to you now,

I didn't write that.

Currently the Uk pays around 6 billion a year for migrants .
To house them is around 3.4 million per day.

And a previous poster had the audacity to say our ageing population; those who have worked, paid their taxes, are a burden to the tax payer and are why our resources are stretched.

You only need to walk into my local A and E ( where I had to spend 15 hours in corridor care before being diagnosed with severe sepsis ) and it’s like a war zone. You can’t hear English being spoken. It’s unsustainable.
We can’t feed, house, clothe, educate and provide healthcare for so many people.
It’s ludicrous.
Look at London and its population. The density is frightening. The population is rapidly increasing and is unsustainable.
End of.
And so many bite the hand that feeds them on this site : if the country, the indigenous, our national flags , our customs and culture, offend you so much then please do fuck off elsewhere.

I think it's also saying something when those posters' minds immediately jump to Reform and Tommy Robinson in the first place. No originality but just desperately trying to show they are better than everyone else.

I don't understand nationalism at all. Why be proud of embarrassed (as this thread suggests) to be from any country? It's an accident of your birth. I was born in Scotland but I'm not proud to be Scottish. I simply am Scottish. I am not embarrassed or proud of what other Scottish people have done before me for I don't know them and it had nothing to do with me.

Studies show that The majority of the Republic of Ireland want Northern Ireland returned to them.

People in Northern Ireland are afraid about financial and economic change if they seperate from the UK. The same thing that happened with Scotland's independence referendum

Howeer, recent studies also show that support for a United Ireland is rising in Nothern Ireland.

Um I’m not sure I ever said England has never done bad things? Of course it has. It doesn’t mean I’m “happy” about it.

Saying other countries have done bad things is absolutely relevant because YOU are the one saying people should be ashamed of the actions of their ancestors. Except it seems you think this should be limited to the English. I’m trying to figure out why?

Im not deflecting. I’m making relevant points. I’m being defensive because I don’t agree with you. I’m defending my point. So what?
Why won’t you answer simple questions?

Hear hear. As an aside, hope you're now OK after sepsis x

Then why are you making assumptions about those who say they’re proud to be English?

I don’t find it hard to be proud of being English because those whose views I value are intelligent enough to know that it doesn’t automatically mean I’m a racist.

Probably. I did say it wasn’t very flattering to the people of NI. Either way, NI is not still part of the UK solely because the English cruelly refuse to let it go.

That is sane. Who wants to be really excited about this stuff? Scary people, imo.

I never said "this should be limited to the English"

You thought that in your own mind. Because you are being defensive.

I actualy gave examples of German people that I know, who feel badly about Germany's past

Yes. And because of free speech they have an active voice, a huge following and oodles of power (and with some VERY dodgy leaders with a worrying past). Which is why it may happen one day - but it not dim enough to think all NI people want a united Ireland. People on this thread are acting like NI is full of reluctant, English hating people who are entirely oppressed. It isn’t.

No.

It is part of the UK because the UK took it though.

And this has caused huge problems in Ireland ever since. And it has caused problems for the UK too

I dont know why they thought taking a third of another country was ever going to go smoothly.

So where does all this is self-flagellation actually get you? What's does it achieve?

The British Empire happened (as did the French, Belgian, Spanish, Dutch, Ottoman, Holy Roman, Mongal, Ashanti, Zulu, Roman etc); it’s one of those annoying facts that cannot be removed or relativised in some postmodern way. That it involved brutality, injustice and cruelty is not in question, it was an empire, not an amusement park. But that it also resulted ( imperfectly) in things that were beneficial should be acknowledged – democracy, the rule of law, free markets, limited government, road and rail infrastructure, improvements in health, education, the idea of individual liberty, the abolition of slavery, the English language etc. Unlike, say, the Soviet empire that murdered millions as a matter of policy, created immeasurable human misery, agricultural devastation, industrial stagnation, environmental disaster.

Lets be honest, whole point of the left’s obsession with imperialism is that it is not a concern about the descendants of Britain’s victims. It’s not a desire for us to be well-informed as to our colonial history. It’s purely a means for the left to portray themselves as heroes of the oppressed, as valiant warriors fighting against big evil corporations, empires and capitalists. It’s self-aggrandisement, its virtue signalling, it's about looking good at your echo chamber dinner parties.....and it achieves precisely fuck all for the decendents of empire, be it the victims or oppressors.

i didn’t say that, though did I? Do you purposefully twist the words of everybody who disagrees with you to fit your own narrative? BECAUSE of the current political climate, flag drama, ‘stop the boats’, Reform etc it can be hard to determine whether somebody is a patriot or a nationalist. I don’t know how many times I have to say this, but I have chosen to live in England. My children are half English. I can’t foresee myself returning to Ireland. I would like people to be able to say they’re proud of being English without the connotations that they are a racist - something every non-racist English person I know IRL also feels!

I was always raised to believe that part of being English is to welcome and appreciate people who aren’t like us and come from far and wide. I agree there is NOTHING English about the reform “Whites only” thinking

I do feel OP, that we can feel badly about our ancestors actions.

And yet not feel personally responsible.

Yes you’re been politely challenged.

You being sensitive and not liking that others don’t agree does not mean you’ve been attacked