Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

There are a lot of Defensive English people on this thread!

So what? Did you expect the dirty English to bow to your intellectual spirit and not give a different opinion?

My ancestors did wrong - so what. I have ancestors who did amazing things too. Why would I only focus on the wrong ones?

Sexism is a prevelant and hugely damaging problem that is causing deaths of women literally today. Not being ashamed on behalf of dead people only affects the self loathing hard of thinking and the minority of bitter Celts happy to whitewash their own history.

Why do you feel the only way not to repeat the past is to feel ashamed of the actions of others, that you had no control over?

Do you honestly feel there is no other way of learning?

Are you drawing from any particular psychological research or theories here, or is it just a feeling you have?

@Linnelaura2 if that’s the case how can you ascribe England’s wealth simply to plundering others?

I never said you couldnt have an opinion. I also am entitled to my opinon.

Its still happening now.

England believe that they own Northern Ireland.

However a lot of Irish people that I know - believe that Northern Ireland is forcefully occupued by England. They want it back

Fuck off and live somewhere else then

Are you telling me how to feel?

Why?

Why are you ashamed though? You weren’t even around. It’s a very odd thing to be embarrassed by.

How does England still benefit from hurting others in the last and what do you propose should be done about it?

It’s so odd isn’t it! I think anyone who thinks they have a responsibility for the actions of strangers needs therapy, it’s not healthy.

How would you have felt if you were German?

WTAF.

Saying you’re proud to be English doesn’t mean you’re happy people were raped. And it’s VERY offensive - as an English woman I was raped by an Italian man. I don’t expect all Italians to feel shame. Because I’m not a massive weirdo

However a lot of Irish people that I know - believe that Northern Ireland is forcefully occupued by England. They want it back

All of them? Do you realise William of Orange wasn’t English?

Yes, well done. What’s your point?

I’ll ask again - I take it you think everyone on the globe should feel ashamed based on their accident of birth?

?? Re read what I wrote. I asked you a question, I didn’t tell you how to feel.

What’s the answer to the question I asked you?

As a reminder, it was me asking you if your assertion that it’s healthy to feel ashamed of the actions of others you had no control over was drawn from any research or psychological theory, or if it is based on a feeling you have.

Are you basing this assertion of yours on any research or theories you can explain, quote or link to?

The absolute irony (stupidity) of aligning yourself with a country that murdered and maimed millions upon millions of people not even 100 years ago while hiding your hideously shameful ‘background of colonialism.’ What a farce. You know that many of our parents grew up on rations. Many of our grandparents died and fought to battle ‘the Germans’. Yet for some reason we (horrible horrible!) Brits are so polite we try not to offend them by even speaking of it… but yes, you should clamber to have people think you’re german because making lampshades out of skin and building murder factories for women and children WITHIN SOME OF OUR LIFETIME is FAR better than people hearing a bit of a cockney twang and jumping to the (bigoted) opinion you might hang flags up from lampposts (or that your great great great great great grandma was somehow involved in colonising the world…?)

I can’t even imagine how your husband stands there with a straight face listening to you badmouth the English? Surely at some point he’s jumped in and said you need to get over it?

Perhaps if people like you just did what the Germans have been doing since ww2 ended, and said nah most of us aren’t like that so don’t tar us with the same brush then got on with your day, this ridiculous anti English self hatred would cease and we could all get on with hating the actual racist idiots who do fly flags to be tossers.

The mental gymnastics is fascinating isn’t it.

We feel ashamed therefore we won’t repeat mistakes?

OR we actually behave like decent humans and embed laws and policies that reflect good standards of today rather than retrospectively expecting people 1,000 years ago to have upheld values of 2025

It certainly doesn’t fall within any psychological theories that I’m familiar with, nor does it feel right to me from a position of simple justice and fairness, but I’m willing to be educated if there’s genuinely something I’m missing

England believe that they own Northern Ireland.

Do they?!
Who? Who is “England”? Is this a person?

Yes a lot of people want a United Ireland. In fact there’s a very shameful recent history of violence from people who wanted this. But a referendum has happened in living memory that allowed a happy medium to be reached because actually many people also don’t want a United ireland. And guess what - the English has nothing to do with the violence to achieve this.

Obviously not all of them, there was quite a famous debate between the Irish who wanted to be in the UK and those who didn’t. It still doesn’t take away the fact that the North was never the UK’s to have!

I’m very proud to be English, and I think that the English are generally less racist than most nations.

The Good Friday Agreement was in 1998 to put this business to bed and to have the people tell leaders what they wanted. The majority voted yes. What more do you want?

How does England still benefit from hurting others in the past.

Northern Ireland.

It was taken forcefully.

Thats, eh , not what I wrote at all.

Meh, I don’t know about that. But what I will say is, I definitely think England have done some brilliant things (as outlined by this thread) but have also done some abhorrent things and the current political climate means that when I hear somebody say they’re proud to be English I sort of assume they mean that in a ‘stop the boats I love Tommy Robinson’ way. Which is a shame

The majority voted yes because they wanted the war to be over. There should have been a referendum on whether the North wanted to remain as part of the UK.

It’s genuinely mind blowing to me that people think that somehow Britain’s history is uniquely awful. Take a random country like say Sweden and what do we find? Colonialism and the slave trade, appalling treatment of the Sami people, collaboration with the Nazis, the Swedish Eugenics programme to name a few shameful episodes.

It’s really worrying how illiterate people are when it comes to history.