Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

I think it's hard to pit atrocities against each other, but I'd struggle to see the industrial enslavement and subsequent breeding as humans, who were seen as less than human because of their race, as morally 'better' than the holocaust. Is it morally better to to profit from human life in this way, or 'just' extinguish it?

Then you have to add other atrocities like forced removal of children in multiple countries, state sponsored famines, and the deliberate erasure of cultures all over the world.

Actually, I'm not sure we should be trying to justify which was worse. It seems insensitive to victims of both. I'd just argue that historically, Britain doesn't have the moral high ground as both committed horrific acts (as did many countries all around the world at one time or another).

So some flags are ok but some are not, and you’re going to presume all people are racist rather than engage in meaningful discussions?

In the 1980s flying the UJ was racist. In the 90s it was racist. In the 2000s it was definitely racist. In the 2010s it was racist and had anti-Europe connotations. And in the 2020s it’s still racist. Just wondering when will we be able to fly our flag without it being seen as racist?

Of course I fully agreed with you but I was replying to OpheliaIsntMad · Yesterday 23:48 regarding where the money came from to give the possibility of the Industrial Revolution.

Other countries are quite rightly very proud of their national flag and fly them from houses and public buildings. I’ve spent a long time in Turkey and even in small villages, the Turks fly their flag.
Are they racist? Why is it ok for some countries to have pride in their national identity and not others?

So why do so many people go through countless countries to get here if it’s not that appealing? We hardly border war zones.

And who said England won WWII alone?

It really doesn’t.

And there are so many holes in your waffly monologue I don’t even know where to begin

I’m not English but the attitude of some of the posters beggars belief, you should be ashamed of your ignorance. Like literally every country on earth England has many shameful periods in its past.

But to describe its history as “shitty” as one poster did is just beyond satire. England is the country responsible for parliamentary democracy, the Magna Carta, most of the world’s greatest literature and scientists. the English language. The Industrial Revolution, defeating the Nazis, abolition of slavery, social reform and better education. I could go on and on and on.

I hope those of you with children aren’t infecting your children with the idea that one should be embarrassed about being English.

A land of engineers, inventors, business and freedom of expression. A country that values fairness and reality. A country that actively opposed and sought to destroy the slave trade. A country that fought with black US soldiers against the racist structures they had, it was just in our nature to do so.

Do yourself a favour, look at the actions of other previously colonial powers. That cradle of European Ideals Belgium in Africa for example.

England is not perfect, but we are not evil. There is a reason people want to come here in the first place.

The reason for the over the top flag bearing is because normal Brits are frankly pissed off at having their culture shat on. They want to be proud of their country and by extension themselves. Stop cringing and reclaim the flag as your own, it represents you. Fly it high and let it represent your ideas, not just those of a minority who take it too far.

It’s just left wing and Irish people who were raised by extremist nuns and handy priests have a problem, just ignore them and ensure you always vote for sensible parties. Voter apathy in the UK has led to people who really should be heavily medicated having too much influence on people’s lives.

I think the people labelling those concerned with the influx of unvetted men into our country coming from places where women and children are horrifically abused and mistreated in law and policy, as racists, are just as scary and “thick” as Farage supporters. The so-called tolerant left are a tremendous threat to this country. I’m far more worried about these people than I am the occasional Reform thug

You are so incredibly uneducated and you’re embarrassing yourself.

Oh yay let’s compare things to the Holocaust.

FFS

Not the country - the people, as shown by this thread are very superior, arrogant and ill informed of their country’s history and its impact on generations.

People then. Just 1 example?

The same far left fluff brains condemning people who fly the St George flag as “flag shaggers” oddly have no problem waving Palestinian flags on a weekend and shouting genocidal chants to make British Jews feel uncomfortable.

But no someone with an England flag is the real problem here

England couldn’t have won it alone but that’s why it’s so incredible they continued to refuse to surrender and fought on even before anyone else joined.

Speaking as a Scot, it wouldn't have been any better for you if you'd had Scottish ancestry. Scotland was every bit as actively involved in the Atlantic slave trade and colonial atrocities as England, and there are flag shaggers here too, I've seen them hanging in a few places recently.

Don’t forget the trans flag which is adorning lampposts across our town!

You are not making sense but that’s not surprising

Because a few racist divvies in the minority do it, so the fluff brains are absolutely terrified that people will do what they themselves do - and make a collective judgement. They are SO desperate to state loudly how progressive and not-racist they are they actually come across as a little bit racist and not very progressive.

It’s not just oppressors and colonialists. You need to read a bit more widely - about Britain, and other countries with more colourful histories even than ours.

I cannot think of any present day country which has a flawless history.Like ScarlettSunset,as far as I know my ancestors were humble folk and not directly responsible for what happened in history. It really annoys me when apologies are given for bad things that happened in the past. Yes,there were terrible things,like slavery,but apologising is pointless.Perhaps the French should apologise for the Norman Conquest,for example.I abhor all the right wing stuff going on nowadays,but I still prefer to be English!

I’ll spell it out very plainly.

Please give me an example of 1 country that you feel is entitled to be proud of their history and nationality.

How ridiculous- I’m embarrassed you’re English too if it helps. Most contemporary developed countries were trying to do the same as England regarding spreading their territories, we were just much more successful than many others. Do you have similar concerns about every other Empire that’s existed throughout history? How do you feel about France invading the UK in 1066? Or what about the Romans, completely changed our culture.

England has a remarkable history, you you think it’s basically all bad, you’re either less informed than the average 10 year old or are easily swayed by ridiculous arguments.

People across the West are concerned about uncontrolled immigration- if you’re not, you really aren’t informed enough.