Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

Can’t be that bad as half the world seems desperate to live here 🙄.. maybe give your citizenship to a Somalian or a Syrian or Afghani? They would be thrilled I’m sure and you could then go and live in one of thror wonderful countries to salve your conscience. No? Thought not 🙄.

My friend who grew up here in Ireland parents are British. Took him a long time to get over being Irish and getting over what did the brits did to Ireland but you'll get over it eventually or join us in hating them too 🤣

This, with bells on.

Really??? I‘m Irish but live in UK and definitely don’t hate the British.

I am a Scot. You're talking shite.

Well said. I am perfectly happy to be English. History is far more complicated than black or white, goodies versus baddies. It is fashionable at the moment to cry fake tears to show how virtuous some people are by apologising on behalf of their ancestors, who were, of course, behaving according to the mores of their time - as, indeed, we all do. The British as a whole and the English in particular have given so much to the rest of the world.

I'm Scottish by birth, Irish/European by heritage. I really dislike the hatred of the English up here and think it's hypocritical. Plenty of Scots participated in and benefited from colonialism and were involved in the slave trade, but people like to point the fingers south of the border at how bad the English colonialists were rather than look at what went on here. DS1 went to school over the border, it's not uncommon where we are to do that, and it's laughable to hear folk here crapping on about the English while sending their kids to English schools!

The English right drove Brexit mind, and that's a sore point that we've had to deal with the after effects. But that's a referendum for you, you have to accept the result even if you don't like it.

I wouldn't like to be English just now with all the far right/Tommy Robinson shite about, but I also know it's not representative of all English people and I wouldn't ever assume someone was like that just because they were.

I'm English/Scots/few bits of continental, and can think of a good many reasons for (suitably understated) English pride:

English is the world's most widely spoken language, as well as one of the richest and most expressive, having the largest useful vocabulary and long, diverse and much-loved literary traditions.

English thinkers provided much of the foundations of the Enlightenment, in such areas as scientific methodology, empirical and rational thinking and political liberalism and early feminism.

English of diverse talents were pioneers in the industrial age, introducing many of the innovations and conventions of the Industrial Revolution and beyond.

Many English people are good at comedy and laugh a lot, especially at themselves.

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98%

Your first mistake was to pay any attention to these data harvesting ventures.

What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism

You think that is no history of Scottish colonialism? It was a failed scheme in Central America that bankrupted Scotland and caused them to beg England for a bailout. You think that Glasgow wasn't built on the proceeds of the triangular trade, just like Bristol and Liverpool? You think that no Irishman owned a plantation?

This navel gazing is tedious

I've never understood people who are embarrassed/ashamed of their nationality, just the same as I've never understood people who try any base their whole personality around it.

You're not responsible for things that happened in the past, good it bad, and anyone who judges you based on a national stereotype is thick and not worth knowing.

I'm not sure that I would even go along with 'vast numbers'

People risking their lives to get to England by fleeing their own country is hardly an indication that England is the best place in the world to live - would you really be choosy if you had to flee an oppressive regime?

Anyway, there have already been several posters who claim that 'everyone', or at least nearly everyone, is desperate to get to England (not just on this thread), along with a few who claim WWII was won singlehandedly by Britain, apparently with no help from anyone else. I feel sorry for anyone so ignorant.

You need to consider the long history of why people in many countries have to leave in the first place - it’s deep rooted in colonialism, slavery and robbing these countries of their wealth and riches which would have helped them develop and prosper in their own right.

Countries taken over for decades/centuries, natives used in servitude and othered. Then, abandoned and placed in governmental powers that do not serve the interests of the people. Look at partition, for example.
It casts a long shadow.

I am not saying that other countries are better, subsequent governments are not corrupt etc but it is not a case of “England must be so amazing if it everyone wants to come here”.

There are many reasons why our history remains a national embarrassment - there has been little done beyond lip service to atone for past actions.
The stolen wealth remains proudly displayed in the Crown Jewels that can only be worn by the most over privileged family which epitomises unearned wealth.
The British Museum is a national embarrassment IMO, I know many will disagree. Not sure people would like it if I broke into their family home, cleared out all the heirlooms and kept it in my family whilst you ended up relatively destitute as your generational wealth was lost, impacting education, aspiration and success.
This country - i.e the tax payers, including some who are descendents of slaves - until recently were still paying off the debt incurred to compensate slave owners following the abolishment of slavery.

So yes, there are many good things about this country but above all the ignorance, stupidity, naivety, entitlement and blind superiority of many of its nationals are by far the most embarrassing things about it.

And me. Nothing I’d sooner be. 👍

Proves my point beautifully

England did not colonise either Afghanistan or Syria so the fact those countries are so disastrous is certainly not our fault 🙄.

Empires colonise. It’s not “nice” but it’s what they do. Always have done read your history books. England has also been attacked and taken over repeatedly itself yet went on to thrive.

I am all for people reading alternative and revisionist histories to learn about the brutal effect of colonialism. May I recommend two brillliant books: ' The Anarchy" by William Dalrymple- about the British East India company- and " The Patient Assassin" by Anita Anand about the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre. I am also for returning certain objects from the BM.
That does not mean I am snide and hostile to English people, though.

I am English and proud to be so.
Many other countries have tainted history and wars under their belts.
Consider the way the Germans treated the Jews.
Imaging doing your Family History and finding that DNA linked you to the Gestapo.
So get over yourself OP.
There's a lot worse out there

You’re overthinking it. Genetically I am mostly Dutch and Irish. I identify as English as I was born here. I can trace English ancestors back more than a millennium. I DO have English colonial ancestors, a slave trader ancestor, a plantation owner ancestor and an ancestor who committed genocide in Ireland. Do I feel guilty? Nope. I am not responsible for what my ancestors did.

Conversely, my DH is a proud Irishman but genetically mainly Scottish and English.

You are not responsible for what English people did historically. I study history and genealogy. It is important to learn from the past. There are many good things about being English. Perhaps trace your ancestors stories, learn about their lives and their struggles, to help you come to terms with your identity.

OP, when you get a minute, reflect upon why Jamaicans have Scottish surnames and why that would be, if the Scots were so innocent?

Please can you give me an example of a country which has a very un-embarrassing, un-stupid history in your view?

'Hard working ordinary people'- they looked like and sounded just like the Far Right that they are, led by people many of whom have convictions for domestic abuse and child abuse. Who drags their child along to yell abuse at fellow human beings about burning them alive?
People have the right to claim asylum, including people coming via France. You may not like it, or understand it, but it's the law.
Of course the tax payer has to fund asylum seekers in hostels- very often four or more to a room with people they don't know or can't communicate with- as they are not allowed to work. I guess people like you, who seem consumed with hatred for people you don't even know based on the fact they're not British, would be ok with people freezing on the streets outside but for now at least, we remain a civilised country where this isn't tolerated.

They absolutely are. The next election will be more important than 1945, 1979 and 1997 all rolled into one. It will define our country for generations to come.

I mean if you did, it would be nothing to be ashamed of (unless you yourself harboured Nazi sympathies). We don’t punish the children of serial killers and as such it’s nonsensical to suggest the descendants of the Nazis should be in any way responsible for the actions of their ancestors.

I think it’s quite amazing how England has forgiven Germany for the killing of 1 million of its citizens and the levelling of entire cities under 100 years ago, with the speed and benevolence that they have. Yet other countries with frankly lesser grievances against the English are still hanging onto them, hundreds of years later.

That’s definitely something we can be proud of.

Don’t be so daft.

People can fly whatever flag they like from their houses or cars, as naff as it looks, but plastering tatty flags over lamposts and roadsigns because of some 'trend' started by a Far Right organisation ran by a lot of unpleasant people with child abuse and domestic abuse convictions, that's not on, no.

It's ironic how Farage rages against 'foreign-born sex offenders' but never mentions his own sex offender nephew, or 'corrupt politicians' but never mentions members of his own party who take bribes from Russia, or 'people not speaking English in public' but has bilingual children with EU passports.....He's a complete hypocrite.

Anyway, I'm turning away from the computer as I don't want to waste NYE arguing with racists. I'm spending with New Year's Day with my immigrant family, all of whom contribute and pay taxes and don't take offence to British flags when the motivation behind them being flown isn't to tell them to fuck off.

Much better company than random internet Reform supporters.