To be confused by the two working parent set up

[Angels1111]

As I return to work from my Christmas break I return to the same conundrum I've been having since kids were born...
...that is confusion at how to handle my multiple roles in life.

I can't help but think that in my mother's generation they had to do the same stuff as us, but with no work. And, there was more of a community to fall back on too - she could get the neighbours to watch us if needed, relatives had more time to visit and play with us, etc. But she had time, to keep herself healthy and to keep us healthy.

Now it feels like a lot of us work in careers which are not conducive to taking long career breaks or going part time. Or, we can't afford to. So we end up juggling everything that comes with having a family with work. My partner does lots but it feels like two people splitting three jobs between them (work, children, house) is more of a stretch and a juggle and I wish every day that I could just focus on the house and kids.

I feel resentful that if I hire a nanny or a baby sitter or get family to help, they'd just play with the kids, feed them lunch, and maybe wash up after lunch wheeras I'd be doing all of that plus the food shop, house cleaning, admin, cooking dinner, washing, homework etc etc simultaneously, and if I wanted to hire someone to truly replace my roles it would take 2-3 people just to do the home stuff let alone work.

But this could just be how I'm handling life! I have a chronic condition so potentially have less energy than the general population, I do handle it a lot better when I'm not flaring.

What year are you talking about your ‘’mothers generation”?

I'm 40 my mum is 70 and she worked full time in a "serious" job.
She was the only mum in my class of 30 to work full time... this was london. So I do think working ft is pretty rare.

She worked 50+hr weeks in the city and it was crazy. I dont know how she did we had a live in nanny/house keeper / surrogate granny for some years.

Most of my friends mother's either didnt work or had a parttime job - certainly not anything youd describe as a "career"

Structurally there's a fundamental problem in society / work.

Im trapped in demanding 50hr pw ft work with small kids because I cannot go PT and if I step off the merry go round I will never be able to get back on. Its not right and something has to give if we want women to keep having children.

I’m almost 58, my mother worked throughout my childhood, in low paid work. She had no time to keep healthy unless you mean walking to get groceries or to the bus stop to get to the launderette to wash the clothes. Meals cooked from scratch meant pork chops or something similarly quick to cook or findus crispy pancakes. At 10 I was frequently left to look after my infant brother while both parents were out.

Ah, give your rose-tinted glasses a wipe. Grandparents have been whinging about the things they can and can’t do with their grandchildren ‘these days’ for hundreds of years. Parenting is ‘too soft’, kids are indulged… It’s a constant refrain.

I’m going to read between the lines and suggest that somewhere in your family, someone doesn’t appreciate your judgement wrapped up as advice. This is not a new phenomenon, nor a surprising one.

OP, I agree. The economy doesn’t support healthy family life, something has to give and it’s invariably the mother’s ability to do anything at all for herself.

You're not wrong. It's a massive juggling act and imo o it works if both parents are on board.
We both condensed hours to do 4 days each meaning only 3 days childcare. On those days we ate freezer meals or a rare takeaway. We divided the jobs. I shopped and cooked and he cleaned.
On a weekend he's taken the kids out for a walk and I'd meal prep freezer meals.
It's a bloody hard few years but now they are both at school it's easier. I now have 2 afternoons off instead of a day so I get to pick them up and they have after school activities.

I also agree with this to a certain extent. I mean could you IMAGINE the ranting if someone started a thread about “a neighbour shouted at my DC when they were misbehaving”. It would be full of how DARE they!! No one should be telling off other people’s children. Etc etc.
If people want the “village” back to how it used to be, then you need to accept it all. If you want your lovely neighbour to look after your children, you’ll need to accept that they will also tell them off.

The other thing you see, especially this time of year, is people only wanting to “focus on their little family”. Sod single childless aunt Mary who is alone on Christmas. We’ll see her another day. We just want a nice small Christmas! Then 6 months later, why won’t aunt Mary look after our kids??? She’s not doing anything else!!

Ive grown very bitter over this. I would give anything to be able to stay at home and raise my children myself. It hurts and frustrates me that I am forced to work and essentially pay someone else to raise them, there's no way we would survive financially on one income. My job doesn't allow for a part time or work from home option.

I think the idea of the village is hard because every family is suffering the same, and with little time to give to our own families, it's hard to give time to help other families.

We are very very lucky we have involved grandparents.

Don't kid yourself that things were easier in the past. It just leads to discontent.
Some people have always been fortunate, some less so. I'm 66. We had no family and not one day of free childcare.
We both had to work and tag team, sometimes it was very tough.
You'll find a way to make it work if you need to be out earning, that's just what people do.

I think there’s a bit of a myth about women not working in the past.
The women in my family have always worked (in addition to their husbands) due to needing the money. Staying at home was a luxury.

These are really good points.

I stopped working when the DCs were babies/toddlers. I went back full time when youngest started school and managed 3 years before I ended up suicidal and having a breakdown. I now work part time and have room to breathe again. I do have DCs with additional needs and already have 3 hospital appointments for them in January.
We have less money these days, but then I'm not spending so much on take aways or easy meals because I was too exhausted to cook. I know lots of parents both work full time, but for us it just didn't work and we're all a lot happier with our current set up.

My children are young adults now but I was lucky when they were young - my DH can be an utter arse in some areas, but with children and the house it was split down the middle - we just mucked in and got on with it. I worked four days a week.

I honestly don't find it that stressful?

But I think I must be quite a high energy person relative to the Mumsnet norms - on another thread, people are describing as "exhausting" eating Christmas lunch, playing charades and being around family for 6-7 hours.

I think key is - I don't try and do everything, I don't WFH with the kids around ever, it's wraparound/holiday clubs when I am working. We have a cleaner and we outsource the DIY too. I recognise we are lucky to do so.

We both have slightly adjusted working patterns to pick the kids up from school once a week and buy a week of extra annual leave.

I totally agree. I work school hours for this reason but I don’t get paid a huge amount… I’d like to work more and earn more but I just couldn’t make it work. We have no family or wraparound childcare available where we live. It really would be the straw that broke the camels back if I worked full-time! I feel like I have to wear so many hats already it’s a constant juggle.

Exactly. Not everyone was middle class and on a secure income.
Plus there was wage inequality, and no such thing as the minimum wage.

But aren't these both extensions of the same thing?

When we were kids we spent hours with our neighbours, as a whole family. So, if they then had to discipline us it was fine - my parents had spent long enough with them to trust them, so had we, etc. Now, I barely know our neighbours as we just see each other going to and from the car from drop offs, pick ups, work and say a polite hello. I'd totally watch her kids if she needed me to, and vice versa, but I presume we'd both be more anxious about it as we dont actually know each other all that well, and that anxiety might result in blowing things out of proportion and "ranting".

Then the focus on little family thing. I was lucky to have the week leading up to Christmas off so by the time Christmas came was happy to engage with wider family. But in many instances you're on the go, doing all the school plays and whatnot and busy at work, then you get to finally stop on Christmas day... generally hard to engage with your wider family if you haven't really had time to engage with the people you live with (or yourself even) properly

Sorry but I don't agree with this at all. I am generation X and the people who are grandparents now, raised me.

Generation X had very little supervision by parents or the "village" at all. My parents would send me off in the morning and I'd do my own thing with my friends to return at tea time. No-one supervised us and no-one even knew where we were half the time. Nowadays this approach would be considered rather dangerous but this idea that back then parents were so much better is a compete rose tinted fantasy.

Yeh that's a good point and it's good to be reminded of this. Plus thinking about it some family did work, eg sewing from home or making samosas from home etc

It never made sense to me. That's why, despite everything, I'll be a stay at home mum.

Yes, both mine worked full time too, 1960s and 1970s when I was growing up.

Why do you "barely know" your neighbours, OP? Have you made an effort with them?
Why aren't you engaging with the people you live with?

What ‘never made sense’?

Yeh I've been reflecting as I read the posts and I think actually I find it most stressful when I'm having a flare up, as today, and need to be in bed - but that's not actually a problem with being 2 working parents and whatever my external circumstances I would still find it hard to work through the pain. I guess that's the bit I need to somehow manage better.

Yes, and there were fewer labour saving devices and ready meals.

Employment rates of mothers have been rising since the 1970s.

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1793979/employment-rate-mums-children-hits-20-year-high-figures-show#:~:text=Employment%20rate%20of%20mums%20with,to%20those%20with%20care%20responsibilities.

in the 1970s about half of all mothers were in employment (this includes part time). Now it’s up to about 75%.

there have always been mums who worked full time time- my mum did and my grandma did and her grandma did - but it’s a lot more common now.

in the 1960s and 70s a more common pattern was that the woman gave up work on the birth of the first child but then when the children were older (often when the youngest went to secondary) went back to work part time.

these days the more common pattern is maternity leaves and continuing in the same career.