To be confused by the two working parent set up

[Angels1111]

As I return to work from my Christmas break I return to the same conundrum I've been having since kids were born...
...that is confusion at how to handle my multiple roles in life.

I can't help but think that in my mother's generation they had to do the same stuff as us, but with no work. And, there was more of a community to fall back on too - she could get the neighbours to watch us if needed, relatives had more time to visit and play with us, etc. But she had time, to keep herself healthy and to keep us healthy.

Now it feels like a lot of us work in careers which are not conducive to taking long career breaks or going part time. Or, we can't afford to. So we end up juggling everything that comes with having a family with work. My partner does lots but it feels like two people splitting three jobs between them (work, children, house) is more of a stretch and a juggle and I wish every day that I could just focus on the house and kids.

I feel resentful that if I hire a nanny or a baby sitter or get family to help, they'd just play with the kids, feed them lunch, and maybe wash up after lunch wheeras I'd be doing all of that plus the food shop, house cleaning, admin, cooking dinner, washing, homework etc etc simultaneously, and if I wanted to hire someone to truly replace my roles it would take 2-3 people just to do the home stuff let alone work.

But this could just be how I'm handling life! I have a chronic condition so potentially have less energy than the general population, I do handle it a lot better when I'm not flaring.

I’m wondering what today’s parents will think in 30-40 years when their kids are complaining about how hard they have it and how today’s mn-ers had it so easy.

This idea that women didn’t work in the past assumes everyone was middle class. Working class women in my parents and grandparents generation worked. They did shifts and struggled with limited childcare options. The “village” didn’t mean you had extra time, it meant when you weren’t on shift yourself, the woman in your family who’d had your dcs while you worked expected you to help out with hers. Men didn’t.

You were expected to keep your house clean and your husband fed, he was not expected to do half, even if your shifts took you to full time hours. Washing machines, vacuum cleaners, freezers - all expensive so many working class families had to cope without. Tumble driers and dishwashers weren’t really an option after they were common in middle class families in working class homes until the 90s.

Clothes were more expensive so it was normal that children would have only one set of uniform and 2 shirts. You would be expected to wash it and iron to have your kids clean for school again.

Please stop romanticising life for the bulk of women in the last two generations.

this is what I was posting about upthread. When my eldest was born in 1993, the family was very much 'a package' and the advice around at the time reflected this. We were encouraged to put our babies to sleep alone so that everyone slept better and bottle feeding was accepted if the mother did not want to breastfeed as it meant dad could be more involved. Holding the baby constantly was not regarded to be a good thing.
Now I know today's parents are convinced today's way is the best way and will probably berate me for what I have just written as cruel, heartless and uncaring, with a side helping of 'Your Poor Baby'
Now it seems it's all about the baby to the detriment of everything and everyone else. Vanishingly-small chances of harm are jumped on and treated as if they are an absolute given if you don't follow the rules. Parents who post on MN saying they have put their five-month-old baby in their own room are regarded as putting their child in grave danger. See also early weaning, forward-facing car seats, bottle feeding, leaving baby to cry for a couple of minutes, discouraging napping in the parent's arms etc. The perceived danger is massively out of kilter with the actual danger, yet the criticism of parents who don't like to be woken up every hour by the baby shuffling about or being 'nap-trapped' or not 'enjoying milky cuddles/newborn snuggles' is real. We seem to have reached a point where the only acceptable way to parent is to be a complete martyr and not regard yourself or the rest of the family at all. That's not healthy.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that more women work now than they used to. I think people are just pointing out that it's not like zero women worked in the 70s and 80s

My mum in the early 80s worked full time and I was with a childminder till I was 1 and then at nursery. There weren't loads of nurseries but there definitely were some.

Around half of my friends' mothers worked, some in serious professional careers, teachers, Drs, etc.

OP, you were born in 1985, had your parents already bought their house then? If so don't underestimate how much £70,000 was for a house back then. The average was around £25,000 so if your mother didn't have to work then your father must have been earning a really decent salary. My parents married in the late 1960s, couldn't afford to buy a house and both of them were working. Most people I knew even in the 90s could only afford a house with two full time incomes.

This was basically my mum’s SAHM life - sounds idyllic but she certainly found it stifling. Eventually she got a part time job (which my dad didn’t approve of) met another man at work, had an affair then ran off with him!

There’s a reason mothers in the 1950s and 1960s were prescribed Valium in large numbers.

sure, not working and endless coffee dates sounds great.

but in practice as a married woman who had a child your husband and/or where you worked made the choices for you.

some companies would sack you as soon as you were married, others would wait until your first child. You wouldn’t have any money unless your husband gave you some and he didn’t have to.

so maybe think of it more as not allowed to work and totally dependent on your husband as to whether you were given any money to go on coffee dates!

I’m early 60’s.

All my peers worked all their lives ( graduates) no one stayed home.

Likewise my peers, late 50s

I think secondary is the hardest phase. They need so much support.Women stayed home in the past because there were no washing machines/mixrowaves/freezwrs/airdrywrs/hoovers.

Now we have all these things they have moved more women into work.

Im 62. We had a cooked dinner at school and sandwiches for tea. This has really swapped round now. Everyone is cooking fussy meals. We just had sugar sarnies!

My mum eventually went full time back to work about 15 years ago for similar reasons. I watched her try to balance home life with a full time job and it was very sad to see because she couldn’t do it. She lost all her motivation for things she once enjoyed and my youngest sibling suffered the most. She hit the bottle too. Then lamented about simpler times and perhaps she didn’t have it too bad.

I think your last sentence is true of just about everything in modern family life tbh.
When we were kids, our parents - working or SAH - just got on with things, did their best and were not constantly judged for everything they did or didn't do. Of course, this was before social media, which is an absolute curse for this.
Every aspect of a child's life seems to be micromanaged now, from the food they eat (healthy, high protein, non-UPF), to the exercise they take, to the sports they play, to the books they read. The irony is for a generation of working parents, bringing up children is now like another 'job' with KPIs and progress reports. All very demanding and stressful for the parents as well as the child.
We are going down a road that anything other than the healthiest and premium food is regarded as neglect (I remember a thread when a dad feeding his toddler a bag of crisps (I think) was declared neglect by posters), clubs and activities are considered essential for mental development and health and travel is expected. Eyebrows are raised if children have to share bedrooms or a parent can't drive (so no second car). And we wonder why parents can not afford to stay at home! Different times.

I am almost 57 and always had a cooked dinner and home made pudding or something like instant whip.
Sunday roast
curry with the Sunday meat on monday
spag bol
homemade burgers
tropical chicken made in the pressure cooker
Homemade minestrone soup again in the pressure cooker
homemade pies or quiches.

My DM worked full time and commuted into London, I don’t know how she did it.

I mean in all senses… financially, emotionally, physically. If it’s not feasible to have a child or children due to financial constraints then do not have them. The same goes emotionally.

You see it time when time again, couples having children when they don’t really have the structures in place to raise them. Then they go around blaming everyone else. It’s more the case for 2nd, 3rd child etc. no learning.

Well said. If this happens on a 2nd or 3rd child there needs to be a deterrent such as reduce benefits.

Exactly. There’s not enough thought or consideration for this when people have children. Also important to consider is if one of the parents were to get ill or die… could you cope? Realistically speaking, I think I could only raise one child with our current finances and support system. I don’t have children currently though.

My mum worked full time as she was a scientist with a career and fantastic pension, which she needed as her and DF split in the 1980’s when me & DB were teens. It meant she could live a full life with her own income til she died and had a very comfortable life.
my beat friend on the other hand was a SAHM got shafted by her DH and has to work the rest of her life, no pension, so it does pay to work but only if you I vest in your own future

WRT your chronic condition, I also have multiple chronic conditions and am applying for ill health retirement at 54, so perhaps account for this in your future if at all possible. I was diagnosed on the last 2 years but had my pension for 20 years so far

In 1981 Thatcher did something to food standards in school

Ypucould buy snacks then and school dinners disappeared a bit. But when l was little we always had hot meal at school and sandwiches at home.

I’m in my 60’s and have two sons now in their 30’s. I had a profession and to retain credibility and keep my job/partnership I had to work full time. I took 8 weeks maternity leave with my first and six weeks with my second. It was not uncommon. The secret to making it work was to be ultra organised and pay other people to do housework, also had a nanny. One of us could usually get to sports day etc but in the greater scheme of things those events don’t matter that much. I’d have been bored silly at home.

My children would be devastated if I didn’t attend their sports day, school plays etc. I see them looking for me every time and then beaming when they see me in the crowd. These events matter a lot.

I couldn’t care less if my parents came to school plays or sports days. I often forgot to tell my parents about them, that’s how little I cared. I think the importance of these events is massively overplayed to make parents who don’t have a 100% attendance at them feel guilty.

(I’m child-free so have no skin in the game in this debate.)

Yeah my parents came to almost none of that stuff because they both worked and it really was sad and that feeling has very much stayed with me.

This is the reality if you both work. Exhaustion juggling. One drops off, one picks up.

You take your holidays separately and use holiday clubs and grandparents when school age.

DC are mid 50s. DH and I both worked from them being pre school. No family nearby. We bought a house early 70s, it necessitated two incomes. DH did more than many of his peers.

DC are far more affluent than we were. Had their DC much later, got established first. Have bigger homes, better holidays, cleaners etc. They did it themselves, and will.have enough to help DGC get on the housing ladder.

Interestingly, Wes Streeting has just said on R4 that new mums have said anecdotally that they feel health workers have no interest in the mother once the baby is born and are completely focused on the baby alone. This is not healthy or desirable.