To be confused by the two working parent set up

[Angels1111]

As I return to work from my Christmas break I return to the same conundrum I've been having since kids were born...
...that is confusion at how to handle my multiple roles in life.

I can't help but think that in my mother's generation they had to do the same stuff as us, but with no work. And, there was more of a community to fall back on too - she could get the neighbours to watch us if needed, relatives had more time to visit and play with us, etc. But she had time, to keep herself healthy and to keep us healthy.

Now it feels like a lot of us work in careers which are not conducive to taking long career breaks or going part time. Or, we can't afford to. So we end up juggling everything that comes with having a family with work. My partner does lots but it feels like two people splitting three jobs between them (work, children, house) is more of a stretch and a juggle and I wish every day that I could just focus on the house and kids.

I feel resentful that if I hire a nanny or a baby sitter or get family to help, they'd just play with the kids, feed them lunch, and maybe wash up after lunch wheeras I'd be doing all of that plus the food shop, house cleaning, admin, cooking dinner, washing, homework etc etc simultaneously, and if I wanted to hire someone to truly replace my roles it would take 2-3 people just to do the home stuff let alone work.

But this could just be how I'm handling life! I have a chronic condition so potentially have less energy than the general population, I do handle it a lot better when I'm not flaring.

In my experience that was absolutely the case. I had mental health problems when I was pregnant and was well looked after, but all that was forgotten once my son arrived as he wasn't very well (jaundice and problems feeding). All focus was on him, the mental health checks were a joke (and I was flagged as high risk for PND) and I was made to feel like a failure because he lost a lot of weight (but was also encouraged to keep trying to breastfeed and not give formula). I feel guilty even thinking about myself, there was no care at all for a struggling new mum.

I understand what you’re saying.
The job of the home and children is not valued enough, or given the resources needed (time) to feel it’s manageable.
However, the set up of one parent at home doesn’t resonate with me- all of my family, going back generations, both parents have worked.
I feel like it might be a skewed vision of the past.

I’m 58 with late teen / early 20s kids. It is easier now as I get breaks when the kids are away from home at uni. Holidays are still relentlessly busy and uni holidays are long. My early 20s DC is now independent socially but still worryingly financially dependent. My late teen DC is still quite dependent in all ways though gradually getting there. So I’m working and DH is working. I was part time when the DC were young as DH travelled and worked very long hours and me being full time was too much. But now it’s above all else a financial strain. Just bought 6 months’ supply of contact lenses for both of them (they have both inherited my short sightedness) and car insurance (we are rural) until the end of the uni holidays. Retirement is still a long way off! And cooking for the family is a nightmare with DC in and out the house at all hours with and without friends and our tiny kitchen. Whenever I want to put a wash on, one of them is using the machine….

But there is also the dad, isn't there if he is in the picture?

DH and I both work and he has a lot more flexibiity and wfh since DD started primary school. So going out for 1 1/2 hours for a sports day or assembly was easier than for me as it meant taking annual leave.

I went if I could but DD also understood that sometimes life doesn't work with the school's calendar and we had a talk about what she wanted. She chose normally assemblies and plays instead of sport day so we planned accordingly.

Luckily the school also realised that parents work and scheduled plenty of things first thing in the morning or after 5pm instead of in the middle of the day. That often meant just 1/2 day leave.

To date, despite working full time, DH or I have always made it to every school event, I am sure one day we may need to miss one but TBH that's true of SAHMs too - life means sometimes you aren't well or have another commitment

DH and I shared the load plus had a cleaner.

it was still tough when the kids were younger.

If you think it's bad with two adults sharing the roles and responsibilities, imagine what it's like for single parents.

I am in my early 40s and my parents both worked full time. I think that was probably the norm for most people my age. I dont know how old you are but if you have young kids I assume not older than me. So if your mum was able to be a stay at home mum I think that has given you unrealistic expectations. Yes its a lot to juggle. And exhausting. But thats the choice when choosing to have kids unless you have a partner who earns a very high salary or your parents are rich.

I think today the problem is everyone wants a village but no one wants to be a villager anymore, across all generations

I’m a working mum with 2 primary aged children and a 1 year old, although only part time (I have been full time) it wouldn’t be worth our while financially for me to be full time really and I wouldn’t want to be. Financially it can be a struggle at times and we don’t have the holidays and days out most people seem to have but it’s preferable. Our children go to nursery/childminders when I’m working so they are in effect taking a big chunk of the workload off me so I never quite understand when people say as working mothers do work on top of everything a stay at home mother does. I’ve been at home over the Christmas holidays as have hardly had change to do anything what with the one year old as she’s been very grizzly unless distracted whereas when she’s at nursery she’s very happy as plenty of distractions all day long and then tonight when she’s asleep I’ve got all the work created by having the kids at home all day to clean up too. I think working part time I get more of a break as when I’m on annual leave our 1 year old still does usual days at nursery which gives me chance to clean the whole house. Before I went back to work I never got that opportunity.
As for the village, it’s something I miss hugely but not for the childcare, but just to be able to hang out together with other people with the kids (as I did years ago when our oldest was little) to have a relative cook you a nice meal once in a while or an uncle show your child how to play the guitar. We don’t seem to have any of that anymore due to illness, relocations etc. I do think people who are wanting a village to provide the regular childcare for when they are working are rather entitled, not everyone wants to look after other people’s children and there are plenty of commercial options out there

I thought this too. If my Mum was still alive she would be nearly 80 now. She went back to work PT when I was about 18 months, and then FT as soon as I was at school. She worked, looked after my brother and me, did the majority of the housework, shopping and cooking, looked after her elderly father who lived with us at the end of his life. She also somehow found time to volunteer in the community and enjoy hobbies. I don’t know how she did it tbh, I have been lucky enough to be able to always work PT.

Completely agree - there’s often a default parent, even if partners support there’s always one that carries the mental load - often the female.

My 2 DC are small still but I will also follow your advice reference having children. Life is so different now!

I agree but, judging by what I see on MN, many parents insist on such a long list of dos and don'ts for anyone spending alone time with their children that most villagers run a mile. They don't want villagers, they just want mini-mes who'll follow every rule - we were happy to have someone who loved our children and kept them safe and happy and we didn't worry about the odd biscuit.

I feel you, 2 DC almost 8 & 4. I work 4 days a week, with a day a week with the youngest DC . Although things are shared, the mental load of the house, oldest DC homework, projects, keeping up with all school activities, majority of the pick ups sits with me. It’s exhausting!!

I have been able to keep my role at work which has helped, but life is a constant juggle!

I agree with one of the earlier posts that sometimes other things have to give & I agree with that.

I agree! I’ve also been trying to hang on to my career as didn’t want to loose that bit of me, but does make it tough with the expectations sometimes! But I have also declined promotions as too much in this part of my life - sometimes you know when you’re at you max with life & work! I wanted to enjoy life a bit more instead of survive which is how I feel Ive been since returned from second maternity leave.

I’m 40 and out of all the mums I know and have known, only a small handful work full time. Most SAH until kids go to school, and then they get a part time job. So for me it is unusual for 2 parents to both be working full time, not just my parents generation

I think most women aren’t considering that non working mothers were entirely dependent on their husbands, and were stuck in terrible relationships being at someone else’s mercy. They couldn’t get mortgages either until the 70-80s. There was a lot of unhappiness and depression too that was unspoken and untreated because an identity only as someone’s wife or mother isn’t fulfilling for everyone. It also explains why fathers of that generation were absent or uninvolved in childcare or housework because the women had no power to demand that equality - and that impacted children more adversely than a mum who’s got less energy due to various commitments. It’s why so many women still don’t expect a man to do 50:50 housework and men get away with doing none - it’s what our parents modelled. Too few women see financial independence for the glorious freedom it is but ultimately we spend fewer years doing full time childcare (before they’re in school) than being in employment.

Well, I suppose some people lead very confined and unambitious lives.

I don't recognise this at all.

I'm in my 60s - the same generation as you Mum, but do not recognise this picture either of women staying at home, nor the idea that we had to do "women's work".
Obviously, nor did my colleagues, siblings, cousins, school mates, University friends, and the many. many women of our generation I've met over the last 40 years or so working in a myriad of different professions.

You have such a warped perception of this time.

My Mum (who would be well into her 90s if she were still alive) was a bit more unusual in that she was 'the one' from her school who did maths A-level, and left her village to move to the big City to work, but she is obviously another generation back. She still worked outside the home, and didn't have family on hand as they were 4 hours away. But she was by no means the only person that did that.

I wouldn’t say that. Some peoples ambitions are to have a good successful career. Some people’s are to be parents and be SAHPs, spending as much time with the kids as possible. Who is to say which one is more ambitious or important?

I think you have to give yourself a break and a pat on the back. You, like so many others are coping so well with so much pressure. Maybe one day our society will get the work life balance right. I’m 67, retired and doing a lot of childcare for grandchildren so still exceptionally busy. Like you did the working full time with 2 kids. I did end up getting someone to do ironing and a bit of cleaning because we ran our own business and worked more than full time hours. Find short cuts for housework and cooking - I know some people use these meal deliveries like Hello Fresh and Gousto a couple of days a week. And cut yourself some slack before you have a breakdown like I did because I always felt guilty about not being enough / being perfect. It’s hard but try to change your perspective of yourself and how you’re doing as otherwise you’ll go crazy

it is really difficult for working mums with kids, without family, especially single parent. I think in many cases shift from previous generations is that work was a place, you will go, work finish and thf. Be home. In my case work is always, emails and teams ping all the time so it is ever consuming. In a way the flexibility is good as I can pick up at 5 and then work at 8.30 on the other hand I am always exhausted
the only way is to have the possibility to pay people to help. Not to nanny as such but cleaning ironing cooking tidying up. So you are left with the nice parts and pay for the boring bits

This is your restricted social circle. I am 45 and the majority of mums I know work full time or 4 days a week. This is the norm in London for middle class families, as you are either quite wealthy, so you can afford London life on one salary or in a low paid job so you get into council housing and benefits hence this covers the mum staying at home.

Op I am white British and I grew up exactly the same as you. So your life definitely is not cultural or unusual, we had exactly the same experience. And the stats reflect that.

Not a single mother in our whole area worked until the children were at least 10/11 at the earliest. My grandmother worked part time. My mother spent her days shiopping for food (1970s) so having to go to individual shops, cooking, washing and seeing neighbours. She would garden and sew our clothes, and bake bread and did not stop!

My grandmother was the same, and everyone around us was the same. We played in each others houses and in the fields. There were so many neighbours and parents around, we were very safe.

I totally understand where you are coming from. Many parents are doing all of above plus 40 hours of paid work!! It’s bloody impossible tbh, and the burn out comes later.

In our case, we found having teens required much more hands on, present parenting than at any time when they were younger. It also coincides with the menopause, parental decline etc.

Op, I think I share your condition from what you have said and you need to do less. Male a plan for the future that allows time for you to manage your condition. You are not the same as everyone else and shouldn’t be expected to try and do the same as them.

You need time to swim, stretch and care for yourself and this needs to built into your future life, as an essential, not as an after thought.

Find ways to reduce your work load to something manageable, even if this means changing your lifestyle.

I think most women are doing way, way too much and only we can say enough is enough. And mean it.

OP, if you can afford a nanny, hire one. You can hire a proactive, organised one who may make your life easier. I don’t know how old your kids are but if they’re school age you can hire one a couple of hours before school pick up and they can do shopping/ batch cooking while kids are at school. This would obviously be difficult with younger kids home all the time. You would just need to be transparent about duties expected at interview.