Labour Voters. Honest question

[Tryingtodobetter82]

I’m not looking to start an argument on this subject. I know it’s a very heated and emotive topic.

I have strong views on political issues. What with algorithms and biased news organisations, it’s very easy to end up only seeing information that confirms what we already believe. Because of that, you don’t often hear the other side of the political divide.

I’m honestly curious whether those who voted Labour at the last General Election, for reference I did not, would vote the same way if there were an early GE in January, purely hypothetical of course.

If so, I’d really appreciate you sharing what you feel they’ve done right so far in their term. I’m asking as I genuinely want to understand different perspectives.

YABU - I would vote labour again
YANBU - I wouldn’t vote for them again (or ever have)

I just told you - your link doesn’t work.

I doubt you could stop everyone, maybe you could bring it it down from 100 thousand to say 20 thousand?

Did you? Maybe just google reform tax policies so you’re more up to date and then come back to me

By doing what ? And where ?

You’d be far more effective removing the need for these types of crossing by providing asylum triage on the other side of the channel, allowing those who qualify over by legal route for processing. Then anyone else who comes over without triage could be legally removed immediately.

There would be zero incentive to cross using irregular means. This would require working closely with the EU and would give us the benefit of access to biometric data obtained at the entry point into Schengen too.

This weird isolationist desire for shuttering the borders is counterproductive. It’s an issue which requires close partnership with the EU on the other side of our borders.

All this plus sorted out the farce that was wealthy boomers getting the winter fuel payment, instead correctly channelling the resource to poorer families. They are way better than any shite the Tories came up with in the last decade or so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx4v44438o?app-referrer=deep-link

Richard Tice told the BBC on Friday that: "The manifesto in July 2024 is not appropriate for a manifesto, or a contract, whenever the next general election is."

Nevertheless, that document is the most comprehensive and recent guide to the economic aspirations of the party - and the leadership have indicated that parts of it still stand.

I think we can manage it, I don’t buy that it’s impossible. At least we’ll have a good go in a few years, see how it plays out. Perhaps you will be proved right.

Yep 💯

As I asked - by doing what, where ?

Tightening the borders, removing pull factors, encouraging push factors. There will also be a massive reduction in legal migration. It’s going to be an interesting time. I’m usually live and let live and not too fussed about politics in general, but this Government has infuriated me with their horrendously damaging ideology and policies so much that I find myself on mumsnet at 11pm !!!

There’s a lot that’s not accurate in that list… 🤔

Isn’t it now costing the taxpayer more than it was - to pay the WFA to all but then to do the admin of clawing it back?

This is really good, keep going and you’ll be able to make a properly informed opinion which will make discussion a bit easier for everyone.

No I wouldn't vote Labour again. It will be greens of lib Dems for me most likely depending on their priorities. The current labour government has taken cheap shots on the environment and are unable to do holistic policy making and delivery. They are quite right wing on some issues.

Maybe you can give it a try

On rates

I'm not sure why you are struggling to get it, I gave a clear example. E.g. if a rate (of anything) increases from 1% to 2% then both of the following are true:

• the rate has increased by 1%, and
• there has been a 100% increase.

When it comes to discussing rate rises, you usually see them expressed in the former manner.

For example, the redundancy rate when Rishi Sunak took office was 2.7 per 1,000 employees, and 3.8 when he left office. I never saw anyone present that as a 41% increase (even though it is).

That's because the percentage increase is not generally what's important, the extent (raw numbers) of the increase is.

E.g. a hypothetical:

Government A: come into power with the redundancy rate at 1 worker in 1,000. When they leave office, it is 2 workers in 1,000.

Government B: come into power with rather rate at 50 in 1,000. They leave with the rate at 75 in 1,000.

For ease of math, we'll assume 30 million workers in the country.

Under Government A, there is a 100% increase in the redundancy rate, and an "extra" 30,000 rendancies.

Government B has a much smaller increase in the rate (only a 50% increase) but an "extra" 750,000 redundancies (25 times more actual job losses compared to Gov A).

I think most people would acknowledge that Government B's numbers are far worse and the % increase is not a very relevant measure.

On the border
By your logic, then, presumably every country in the world has always had an open border policy (i.e. the opposite of what is actually true).

The blasphemy laws stuff did touch on some relevant real concerns, and the Labour-appointed working group identified the same issues. At this point, we can safely say that blasphemy laws are not being introduced, neither "by the back door". People who are continuing to peddle that talking point are being dishonest.

Although it's a bit of a nebulous concept, I think decolonizing the curriculum is a plainly and obviously good thing.

In terms of history, I'd rather students were taught about a range of different perspectives than something more akin to propaganda.

In terms of culture, it is perfectly possible to teach things of " white British" cultural signifiance, but also touch on other cultures too.

I'd rather a generation of well-informed children, armed with a sense of perspective and critical thinking skills, vs an army of unwaveringly patriotic, unquestioning and insular "model Brits".

Still so vague.

“Tightening the borders” - what does that look like ?

“Pull factors”
”Push factors”

Concrete - how do you “tighten the borders” ?

Thing is, Labour tightened the borders by reducing the pull factors (harder visas, stricter settlement requirements, tougher employer rules) and managing push‑factor pressures (stronger border controls and asylum processing). There's also the mooted ID cards.

There's not much more they can reasonably do that does not either require greater international coordination or violating international law.

I'd rather have Boris back than Starmer tbh.

God, I wouldn't.

Rachel maths aside, we’ve established that Labour have increased unemployment by 11%, increased redundancies by 32%, plan to introduce blasphemy laws and the ‘decolonisation the curriculum’ (amongst a whole plethora of other quite sinister and wacky stuff). Can we also accept that these are deliberate and calculated acts so we skip past the part where we pretend anyone is the least bit surprised that huge tax rises push up unemployment and increase redundancies?… ..do you understand the anger towards them and why they’re so widely despised ? Even if you think all these are good things, you must understand that most people don’t and that the Government don’t have a mandate for this?

I miss Rishi Sunak a lot. Kinda wish we'd just stuck with him. He wasn't perfect, but a lot better than the current lot.

So many dislike Starmer it will be a liability for Labour.

I can accept:

• that unemployment is slightly up and Labour, and that's largely due to where they've decided to levy taxes and hinders growth.

• that Labour's policy to make incremental steps that are consistent with decolonizing the education system is unduly rage inducing to some.

• that "Rachel maths aside" is a good vibe.

But no, there still won't be any blasphemy laws.

I mostly attribute the fanatical hatred of a very moderate government, navigating a different period of the country, to absurd levels of hyperbole mixed with significant disinformation, peddled via right wing social and print media. Its positively batshit.

What’s your sector like in terms of jobs? Do you feel pretty secure. And do you know any graduates looking for work?