to think FILs are tolerated more than MILs?

[HazelMember]

People talk endlessly about nightmare MILs. There are stereotypes, jokes and endless advice about setting boundaries. But when it comes to FILs, it feels like they often get a pass.

If a FIL is rude, dismissive, domineering or quietly undermining, it is brushed off as his personality, his generation or just how men are. If a MIL behaved in the same way, it would quickly be labelled toxic or controlling. With FILs, you are expected to ignore it, laugh it off or manage your own reaction.

What really gets me is how quickly the responsibility shifts onto women. You are told to be kind, to be patient, to not rock the boat and to keep the peace. There is very little expectation that the FIL reflects on his behaviour or changes it.

AIBU to think FILs are tolerated more than MILs? Or is this another example of bad behaviour being excused because it comes from older men?

Yes I am sure there are amazing FILs. I am not saying all FILs are nightmares.

I think a lot of the gender disappointment threads involving boys are grounded in this - the fear of being a MIL, the fear that whilst a DIL will either welcome or perhaps just tolerate her own mother’s input in regards to the new grandchildren, a MIL will be told to butt out as it is “none of her business”. A MIL’s is input somehow seen as more threatening.

Interestingly the challenges of the MIL/DIL relationship seem to have replaced the old comedy tropes of the husband always complaining about his wife’s mother (the old Les Dawson “Take my mother in law…please” type jokes which now seem terribly dated).

In our home anything good is attributed to her son. Anything bad to me.

So she has more than once commented on the shear amount of stuff we have. Never in front of dh. The thing is it’s all dh’s stuff. His a bloody hoarder but it’s in sheds and she snoops. But his childhood bedroom was bare so she side eyed me.

Till I one day had enough of the same comment every bloody time she visited and said

yes he does like to keep everything….
Anyone would think he wasn’t allowed to keep things when younger ….. tinkly Mumsnet laugh.

yes bitchy. But she’s not mentioned it again since and understands it’s all his shit.

I cut the lawn for 2 hours bloody large garden she was alll oh son what a good job you’ve done with the lawn 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️ mum op did it. Oh ok then, you much weed that bed over there. ☠️

I’m not sure I would go that far into saying lots of gender disappointment is out of fear of being a MIL. I typically see the fear of being a MIL from women on MN who already have sons.

In most forums I’ve come across, it’s more about fearing the lack of connection with a son, women’s relationships and experiences with men in general, and trying to raise them to be decent men because mothers are often blamed for son’s behaviours. Fear of becoming a MIL from pregnancy was rarely mentioned.

A bit illogical when you consider that you’ll be a MIL regardless of what gender your child is.

Thats very interesting, I wanted to have a great MIL, mine just has very few social skills and is very awkward to be around. Its my FIL really that causes the problems. We are pretty much all ND is that makes a difference. In my experience and family its not gender its personalities.

@creamcakesintherain. It is worth taking a quick Look at the research I have provided links for. There is a great deal of evidence to support the fact that women are much more likely to be antagonistic to other non biologically related women within a family unit. Sex (gender) plays a really important role in how well non related females behave towards each other in family units. Women are much more forgiving towards their mothers and sisters than towards MILS and SILS. Interestingly, research shows that this competitive element is more pronounced in matriarchal societies.
Don’t forget the OP asked if MILS are more likely to annoy than FILS and why. The poll suggests that the majority of posters agree with the OP which suggests a lot of the family conflict has to do with sex (gender).

I can only say how it is for me & I have a fantastic FIL & my MIL though I like her is much more hardwork & less enjoyable to spend time with. She very much likes to put you in your place early doors. She was really rude when I first met my H & would often make comments & actually told me she preferred his ex. His sister was heavily pregnant when we first met & when she had her son I bought him an outfit (we had been dating 3 months) she was quick to point out the ex had been round with presents totalling £100’s and that’s what a future SIL would spend on her nephew. She even told me whilst pregnant with our first child she would love it less than our nephew & not to expect her to treat them the same. I would listen to these swipes & never told my H but this I did as I was so upset (blame the hormones as I came back in the house crying, we where sitting in the garden) H asked what the problem was and I told him. He went mental. He kicked her out & said she’d be lucky to ever have any contact. My SIL was equally horrified & also told her mom she was out of order. within hours she was at the door in tears begging to be forgiven & saying she doesn’t understand why she says such things. We forgave her & things improved, but I suppose the difference is my FIL has never behaved this way. He would drop everything to help his grandkids & yet he’s not affectionate & doesn’t seem to think about asking how they are. He’s quite a stable figure. You get the same person everytime you see him. My MIL comes round and it’s common to have the conversation if she was good or bad on the visit. I don’t know if it’s because women have fluctuating hormones or not but when she good she’s brilliant good company & a bit of a laugh. When she’s bad she frustrating and difficult & it appears she wants to be.

I think that “connection with a son” is partly what I’m alluding to, as I’ve often seen it said that once married it is the DIL who somehow “gatekeeps” the relationships.

Of course that might be that the DIL is actively maintaining regular meet ups with her parents, whereas the son is less proactive with his own, There might also be some truth in the idea that sons tend to make more effort to keep contact with their own parents while they are single, but less effort when they are in a relationship.

If so, those parents might (unfairly) attribute the noticeable drop in contact to the DiL, and feel especially hurt if they see evidence that the couple seem to now spend more time with the wife’s parents than with them.

Add grandchildren into the mix and there is a whole extra level of complexity to navigate in those relationships.

It is easy to judge or place all the blame on the in laws, but if there were genuinely open and honest conversations I wonder how often we’d find that negative emotions like hurt, loss, fear of abandonment or loneliness are lurking underneath those difficult relationships.

Yep fil get a pass but boyfriends & husband are the devil incarnate on here. The calls to LTB for merely expressing an opinion or the sin of not doing as they are told is punishable by divorce & nc with their own children. Maybe it’s the world balancing out the ying & yang. But this post has made me wonder how many of the LTB’s are also the haters of MIL’s & don’t think for one second that maybe the differences in the sexes is much more to do with problems we have than it is to do with men or women being massive c u next Thursdays

My FIL was obnoxious in a general sense but never tried to interfere and not directed at me.

It’s the other way round for me. My FIL is not a bad person- he means well, but is just so exceptionally irritating and smug and self-righteous. Being in his presence is like nails down a blackboard for me. My MIL is a sweetheart.

MIL are often sticky beaks whereas FIL are normally just rude, and you can ignore them.

Absolutely. Women hating on each other.

FIL stays out of it but MIL is really toxic and nasty so we’re now no contact. This might be the case for others too and that’s why there’s more MIL threads.

My FIL was a amazing man it would be him giving cuddles, down on the floor playing with his GCs etc. He truly was the baby whisperer and could calm them all in witching hour. Would change nappies, sort their food and was fantastic with them all. Sadly he died a few years ago.

My MIL on the other hand only wants to appear to be a GM if there was a camera about or she saw one of her friends. She can manage about 40 minutes of interaction with them then she's done (she's 68 in good health).

I would say MILs and FILs are equally likely to be arseholes statistically, but MILs, if unpleasant, are much more likely to really upset their DILs rather than just be irritating. They will consider themselves experts on how to be a good wife and mother, e.g. explaining why a baby who’s sleeping poorly is all the fault of the parents (i.e. mum). They get you where you’re most vulnerable and undermine you when you feel shit anyway. A FIL who’s a bore or even actively unpleasant will rarely get under a DIL’s skin in the same way because it tends to be less personal.

It’s not the issue; it’s YOUR issue.
You seem to say that no women should enter the homes of their closest blood relatives, their children and grandchildren.
This is extreme.
If you do indeed have children, is this how you want to be treated a few years down the line, to be banned from seeing your own children?
As I said, MN does encourage a variety of opinions, but this has to be one of the most extreme and I don’t find it respectful as per the guidelines.

I think people find their fil nice or not and just get on with it but there seems to be a weird territorial thing with dil and mils, and how many complain about the mil and childcare and how it is or isnt being provided

My FIL or at least the man who would have been my FIL died before I met DH.

I’m no fan of MIL and even she says FIL would have been much better with DGC than she is. I do feel I’ve missed out a bit as has my DS.

unclench

All I am saying, and I am saying it again, is that MIL should give the same respect and boundaries as they give everybody else.

no women should enter the homes of their closest blood relativesnot without invitation, no! Why would you believe you have any right? Your DIL (or SIL) are NOT a close blood relative, they are not relatives at all! They just happen to be married to your child, and have to put up with the parents.

As the poster said above, it's because these MIL see their son's house as their own, they conveniently forget that it's the home as their DIL.

If you do indeed have children, is this how you want to be treated a few years down the line, to be banned from seeing your own children?
why would I be? I respect my children's partners, I don't start some competition about "the other mother was there and it's not faiiiiir" and I don't claim any right about a baby, I respect the mother first.

Respect is earn. If you don't give any to your DIL, you can't complain they have no interest in seeing you. It's not that hard

Funny enough, the more chilled and less pushy you are, the more welcome you are.

But,@SereneCoralExpert, this is your opinion and though valid to you because it is your opinion, so many posters will disagree with you. The question posed by the OP asks if FILS are not ‘hated’ in the way that some posters on MN dislike their MILS. ? Is it to do with Sex(gender)? Lots of research suggests that it is to do with gender (sex). There is so much research to show hostility between non biologically related women in a family unit. So a woman is more likely to be irritated ( or worse) with her MIL, SiL and stepdaughters than her own kin. The poll at the start of this thread shows that 72% of posters agree with the OP. Women are more likely to tolerate FILS than MILS because they are more antagonistic to non related females.
it sounds as if you have fallen out with your MIL which is sad but it reflects a pattern in society of competition between non kinship women. However, there are many, many women ( as evidenced on here) who make a big effort to understand and deal with the natural animosity felt within an extended family group. That is to be applauded.
You may well find solutions to your own distinct issues with your MIL. And I am sure that following a family Christmas, you may feel the need to moan to another family member or friend. But it doesn’t negate the fact that most posters on this thread agree that MILS have a more negative experience than FILS. Academic research shows us that this is due in part to female non kinship relationships in a family setting.

@SereneCoralExpert - would you say the same about a husband’s mother in law - that she is not a close blood relative, not a relative to him at all and so should keep out of the home and mind their own business?

I read a lot about the dreaded MIL. I have 3DDs and a DS. I am MIL to 3 SILs. We all have a good relationship. They have no problem with me continuing to have a relationship with my daughters even though they are married and have families of their own. It appears to me that DILs on the other hand feel that once a son gets married he should give up his relationship with his mother and his wife should be the only woman in his life. My son is not yet married but I'm not going to stop having a relationship with him when he is and I don't think he will with me so I guess I'm going to become one of those MILs from hell. Strangely DILs don't seem to have a problem with sons going for a pint or to the football with their dad's.

Yes and we get the dil who think their husbands mothers vanish when they get together but have a son and complain the son doesn't see them as much when they get a partner themselves

Unless the mil offers childcare of course or expensive presents

It appears to me that DILs on the other hand feel that once a son gets married he should give up his relationship with his mother and his wife should be the only woman in his life.

Is the son a silent robot in all this? Is he just doing what his wife wants? Then that says a lot about him.

I don’t think my FIL “gets a pass,” he just isnt as annoying as my MIL.

Obviously can’t speak for everyone, and everyone’s families are different, but my experiences are that MIL is a pain, interferes, crosses boundaries, is demanding etc, whereas FIL barely speaks and does nothing to irritate or affect me. My sister has the same experience. Her FIL is a quiet, kind old man who’s fabulous with her children, whereas her MIL is domineering and often undermines her as a parent. Similar with friends, my best friend has huge problems with her MIL, but her FIL barely says a word and is always very kind to her. So I’m not just saying that just because the three of us have those experiences, everyone in the world does, but in our small circle, it is the MILs who are more problematic!

My MIL can be very spiteful and doesn’t like it when we do anything with my parents. For example this year, we hosted my parents and grandparents for a buffet on Christmas Eve, and we hosted MIL and FIL on Boxing Day for a roast. Even though this was equal, she can’t stand it when we see my parents, and always makes comments. On Christmas Eve I had the table laid all beautifully for our buffet, nice napkins etc, table decor. She turned up unannounced and dumped bag fulls of presents for us and our baby on the table. Purposely knocked over candles and rumpled napkins. Laughed and said “I know I could’ve brought these tomorrow morning when we come, but rather they clutter up your house than ours…sorry about your table decor.” Whereas FIL would never do that. (And don’t worry, my boyfriend told her what for and fixed the issue, I certainly don’t have partner problems, he’s great at telling her when she’s done wrong!)