to think FILs are tolerated more than MILs?

[HazelMember]

People talk endlessly about nightmare MILs. There are stereotypes, jokes and endless advice about setting boundaries. But when it comes to FILs, it feels like they often get a pass.

If a FIL is rude, dismissive, domineering or quietly undermining, it is brushed off as his personality, his generation or just how men are. If a MIL behaved in the same way, it would quickly be labelled toxic or controlling. With FILs, you are expected to ignore it, laugh it off or manage your own reaction.

What really gets me is how quickly the responsibility shifts onto women. You are told to be kind, to be patient, to not rock the boat and to keep the peace. There is very little expectation that the FIL reflects on his behaviour or changes it.

AIBU to think FILs are tolerated more than MILs? Or is this another example of bad behaviour being excused because it comes from older men?

Yes I am sure there are amazing FILs. I am not saying all FILs are nightmares.

Statistically,academic research shows women are much more likely to fall out, or have an acrimonious relationship with MILS, SILS and Stepdaughters. There is a lot of research to show this. Anecdotal evidence, although beloved on MN doesn't count in the same way.

From AI,
Academic research in evolutionary psychology and sociology confirms that competition between non-blood related females within a household is common, driven by the pursuit of scarce resources (including a mate's affection and status).
This competition is predicted by Hamilton's Rule, which posits that individuals are more altruistic towards and less competitive with those to whom they are more closely genetically related. Consequently, conflicts are expected to be more frequent among non-blood relatives (affinal kin) than among blood relatives (genetic kin) within a family unit.

is interesting, although heavy going, to compare gender differences in matrilineal societies with standard patriarchal societies.
https://gap.hks.harvard.edu/gender-differences-competition-evidence-matrilineal-and-patriarchal-society

We saw the in-laws for dinner today. Fil cooked a lovely tomahawk per person cooked to their preference. Then he sat and watched tv after dinner.

Also gave us a lovely new cast iron cooking dish.

Nothing to find offensive there.

Mil passed comment on how much or not every person had eaten, how much weight people had gained or lost. If you were too silent or too loud. Going to the bathroom too much or drinking too much. While she was out having a fag every 15 minutes coming back in stinking but hey it’s her house.

fil was lovely mil was mil 😅

I get what you’re saying, but it’s hard to “let go” when women are the ones criticised for everything under the sun by other women, society, media , even politicians.

you don't need to go further than this forum to see that it's the same for men.

I think they biggest different is their ability to ignore it, when too many women get stuck on petty details.

The MIL bashing threads on MN are numerous and baffling to me.
Most of the women I know are MILs and so am I.
The two main points IMO are that MILs

1. Devote a great deal of time (and sometimes money) on helping/supporting their grandchildren and families.
2. Talk mostly in terms of buttoning their lips and 'no comment' when they see ridiculous things happening (eg recent post where 7 year old DGC had been bought a smart phone for Christmas).

After much thought, I have decided that a significant proportion of the many anti MIL comments on MN are written by people (women?) who don't actually have a MIL and are often young, and are misogynist in nature. Of course, plenty of people do have difficulties with their MIL, but plenty do not and this is not represented in posts.

Not quite. At most , men are held responsible for their own behaviour (with much lower standards). Women are judged by their children’s behaviour, their partner’s behaviour, their homes, their jobs, their appearances and are made to feel responsible for anything that goes wrong or if one of the multiple plates they’re juggling is being dropped .

Maybe you don’t see it, or simply don’t care, which is great! It takes a lot of hard work to get to that point (for most women) , it’s not the default.

I am glad you have decided that these women don't actually have a MIL and are often young, and are misogynist in nature.😂 How patronising can you get!

instead of accepting that many women are a nightmare when they are MIL and their DIL are waking up and not accepting the crap their own mothers and grand-mothers used to put up with

buttoning their lips and 'no comment' when they see ridiculous things happening there would be less animosity if they did do that. Which they don't.

@EatYourDamnPie
Did you read the research link that shows women are much more likely to fall out with non biologically related women, Hamilton's Law.
The evidence from the few Matriarchal societies shows that women are even more competitive in matriarchal societies.

I agree. However, it's part of a wider issue where women's behaviour is generally more severely judged than men's. This isn't limited to MILs.

Ditto @SereneCoralExpert
There is a lot of academic research showing why women feel threatened by MILS, SILS and Stepdaughters. I think the hostile behaviour from women towards non biologically related women goes back hundreds of thousands of years.
History shows that many women feel hostility towards non biological members of their family unit. Jane Austen is full of examples.

@WhatALightbulbMoment
There is a considerable body of research that shows how widespread conflict is between non biologically related women in the same family. This research does not set out to judge but identify and to some extent explain this hostility.

I think it is interesting than in the few Matriarchal Societies studied, this competition between females is even more pronounced.
Don't run away with the idea suggested on MN that this hostility is new. It has been around since the first primitive societies.

There is a lot of academic research showing why women feel threatened by MILS, SILS and Stepdaughters. I think the hostile behaviour from women towards non biologically related women goes back hundreds of thousands of years.

Assuming that research also shows why women feel threatened by their daughter in laws too?

My FIL is the most rude, unpleasant, bigoted, distrespectful human being I have ever met. I could witter on at length about him. DH has gone low contact this past year which is infinitely better. Still have MIL issues though. It depends on the family dynamic and personalities more than gender I think.

I didn't say I have decided .
I said, After much thought, I have decided.
I also said, plenty of people do have difficulties with their MIL.

Have you considered that sometimes DILs are being difficult and sometimes MIL snaps?
We see less anti DIL posts; perhaps that reflects MIL's tendency to 'button up.' Perhaps MILs now need to 'wake up and not accept the crap .'

You do seem somewhat intolerant of an opinion different to yours; there is nothing patronising about my post.

So far as I know, Mn exists to encourage a variety of opinions.

Absolutely. There is plenty of research to show the hostility between non biologically related women in the same family. It is important for women to recognise and understand this behaviour when they have step daughters.
It is not just recorded in women. Male lions will kill any offspring of a female lioness they come into contact with. It brings her into season and gives him the opportunity to impregnate her with cubs that are biologically his. It is a fact of life which is why there is some nervousness towards non biologically related men joining a family with young children.
We can brush away these behaviours and pretend this hostility does not exist but it does exist and it is important to be aware of these behaviours in any family setting in order to avoid any potential conflict.

You have the opinion you want, but the issue is about DIL not tolerating unreasonable behaviour from their MIL. The solution is simple, they just don't see them, or try to see them . Nothing a MIL can snap about, she's not welcome nor invited. Best way to avoid drama!

Perhaps MILs now need to 'wake up and not accept the crap .'
all everybody is asking of them, is to stay away and mind their own business though.

If they did, there would be no complaint whatsoever, would there

@creamcakesintherain
But research shows that gender does play a big part in conflict between non biological females in a family. There are oodles of anecdotal stories about MILS on MN and oodles of anecdotal stories about DILS on Gransnet. They are evidence of established hostility between non blood related women in a family setting. It is not new, it is thousands of years old.

@SereneCoralExpert writes,"The solution is simple, they just don't see them, or try to see them . Nothing a MIL can snap about, she's not welcome nor invited. Best way to avoid drama!"

From and anecdotal point of view @SereneCoralExpert .
I know lots and lots of DILS and MILS who do not agree with you. They overcome centuries of prejudice to welcome outsiders into the family unit. Hurrah for overcoming biology (some) and discriminatory behaviour.

They are evidence of established hostility between non blood related women in a family setting

I bet that if MIL behaved in their DIL's house the way they behave in everybody else's house (with boundaries and respect) there would be no issue at all.

It's when they start believing they have some weird rights or are entitled to behave like close family, or have the same rights as the woman's own parents, that problem start.

That will be because they see it as their sons house rather than shared.

you are certainly right, but I think it's often not deeper than that. It would be so easy to avoid, that's the sad thing.

There was a recent thread from a woman complaining about her 80 year old widowed MIL taking taxis to the shops because she felt her MIL was spending her son’s inheritance. As his wife, the OP really resented her MIL spending her own money. It powerfully reminded me of the opening chapters of Sense and Sensibility.

It's very annoying but perhaps women are usually more forensic in their criticisms because we care more. Sad, but true 😩