For speaking to my adult dd about her fiancé ?

[Anonyalphamom]

Dd is 25. Been with her bf for about four years , they met in covid . He was the first boy she had ever dated. She has social anxiety ( though much better now than she was ) and very low self esteem. We have never really warmed to him, it’s very hard to find the words to explain but he is an odd amalgam of device obsessed teenager and a 70 year old man that’s very set in his ways . On paper it’s a great relationship. She lives about two hours away , finishing up
her studies and he moved jobs to be with her. They have a rented house that’s really nice and a very quiet life of the odd Indian meal out and trips to the retail park or a stately home type outing ( dd doesn’t drink and he rarely does ) .
her brothers don’t like him as they don’t like him watching football on his phone at family gatherings and feel he puts her down and doesn’t help her self confidence. Having said that he is always made welcome here and we are nothing but nice to him and I never say anything to dd.
this time , before they came for Xmas, dd messaged me the previous days to say that he had gone out to his works Xmas do , got really drunk , managed to work the next day but then basically spent three days in bed. She sounded exasperated with him , for the first time ever.
they came home on Tuesday and we have hardly seen him , he will eat a meal with us then just disappear upstairs. On Xmas day , they went to his parents for the day , got home about 8.30 and he went straight to bed, didn’t even say hello.
tonight we were playing a board game and he just got up and went upstairs mid game , and didn’t reappear.
god sorry this is so long but gist is , is now a time to say something to dd ? I don’t want her to feel trapped into staying with him. I want to
offer to support her financially if needs be , pay his share of the rent etc so she knows she has options , but should I just not interfere ?

Op, I suspected Neurodivergence from your opening post and I’m wondering if it’s something that your daughter and her boyfriend have considered for both of them.

This sounds very like my autistic DH (apart from the bit about liking football). He will sit as a guest in someone’s house and completely ignore them and scroll on his phone or sometimes just close his eyes as though he’s asleep. He’ll even do this at the dinner table. He’ll also wander off halfway through a meal or conversation without excusing himself or anything. He hardly ever remembers to greet or acknowledge people when they enter the room. He will also often forget himself and start eating with his hands something most people use cutlery for (like salad).

It takes nerves of steel on my part to do anything social with him - sometimes he can pull it out of the bag and be polite and chat to people, but mostly he sits there with a face like a slapped arse or shuts down and dozes off.

All my family find him odd and unlikeable, which isn’t surprising really, as he consistently treats them like shit without ever really understanding that’s what he’s doing. I’ve tried over the course of 20 years to give him a sense of his impact but he insists manners are bullshit and anyone who cares about them is an idiot. So he just doesn’t come to family or other social events anymore, where possible, and I am fairly frank with people these days that he doesn’t socialise and has very low energy levels.

He wasn’t like this at the start - he was well and truly masked up until we were living together and married, so it all came as a bit of an abrupt shock when he just stopped making any kind of effort at all ever.

Some parts of our relationship do work relatively well despite all this - others less so.

My ds had a girlfriend like this (including living with us during COVID) only difference being ds doesn't have siblings. It may be neurodiversity, it may be he's not feeling too well and nobody has bothered to tell you (thinking about the office do and drinking too much) he may just not feel like socialising. Leave the door open, let her know that you're there if she needs you. Eventually ds relationship crashed and burned as she decided he wasn't for her and he found her in bed with his best friend. Lots of different things can go on even when they've been together a while, the thing is to keep the door open
As for the disappearing etc, my ex h did this all the time and it never improved. He became extremely when ds was 2 as I just couldn't tolerate the behaviour anymore and he turned violent towards me because I suggested he think before being rude to others.

I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t say something. Maybe he is ND, maybe he is just a selfish and rude man child who hasn’t been pulled up on his behaviour. No one can possibly know. Not even the keyboard psychologists. Social anxiety is not insurmountable. But it is easy to slowly spiral into an isolated life if you have a partner whose behaviour ensures you stay well within your comfort zone, and indeed, ensures that that zone gets smaller and smaller. Because that’s what suits him.

A partner should build your self esteem. Not reinforce it.

I think you should say something. You have to be quite calm and gentle with her. You could also detail the support you are willing to give her. She may not like it but it will mean that if she ever does contemplate leaving him she knows that you will support her and that she won’t be alone. It is really important that your talk with her should be drama free.

I suggest that it is best that you do this at a time when he isn’t around. Can you go out with her on your own after these holidays in the next couple of weeks?

Wow.
Armchair psychiatrist . As a mental health nurse these type of comments really irritate me.

Anyway , the only thing he sounds to me is unreasonable OP and i would let her know that you are there for her , because i worry that she could end up feeling up lonely.

Good grief I would find that behaviour difficult to put up with. You must be very tolerant.

This will explain why they are comfortable with each other and will tolerate behaviours that seem odd to others.

It also means they might be more inclined to settle for each other even if they aren’t happy together rather than deal with change.

If she seems genuinely happy with him I would not interfere, but if you see signs of controlling behaviour I think it would be right to speak up.

It sounds like he has no social skills at all.

I am still grateful to my parents for influencing me in breaking up with a boyfriend of 4 years. Had they not done that I would have been trapped in a relationship with a very negative individual and I would not have found my husband and father of my children, he is amazing. They did it in a very delicate and supportive way making me think what I really wanted for myself and giving me perspective as to what I really deserved. YANBU.

Or he's relaxed with you all now ,to not need to mask .
He's clearly overwhelmed and gone upstairs to regulate himself
I'm diagnosed autistic
Sometimes when visiting in-laws I have to go and sit in the car for a bit
And that's despite knowing them 30 years ..I can't help it ,need to be by myself for a bit to be able to cope

He lacks social skills and it is very difficult to be social if you have no intention of being polite.
As you have said he was with you for 6 months so you would think he would have some idea how behave.
The are both adults and sometimes you just have to let them get on with it and hope they learn from their mistakes!

Ask her if she’s happy but give no opinion of him yourself. The conversation will unfold from there. If she has doubts about him it’s important she knows it’s ok not to go forward with the wedding. Keep the conversation centred on her rather than it becoming a criticism of him.

It sounds like he might be struggling with something at the moment - burnout, stress, depression, a physical illness? I’d come at it from that angle when chatting to her - that he doesn’t seem his usual self, is she worried about him? If they’re both possibly ND, things are possibly better between them when they’re alone than when trying to be sociable with family. My mum couldn’t stand my first boyfriend and made that pretty clear (looking back he was clearly autistic, as am I, but we were both just seen as rather odd high-achievers at school back then). However the relationship I had with him was a real turning point for me - he actually loved me for who I was, quirks and all, and I could genuinely be myself with him. After years of bullying at school it did so much for my self-esteem. He was so awkward around my family though - never quite managed to say the right thing, came across rude even though in private he was very kind.

Echoing ND question raised earlier. As someone with multiple ND relations, honestly, what is wrong with withdrawing quietly when your social battery has run out? It sounds like an excellent coping strategy to me - why read it as weird and rude?

I guess before you say anything you need to reiterate how she has your 100% support and love and you'll stand by all her decisions.

But as someone who spent 6 years with one of these guys, try not to let it become normalised when he acts like a weirdo. Your daughter thinks he is what she deserves, and your smiling and pretending everything is normal confirms that for her. Im not suggesting you offend her by saying he is being a complete moron, but you can say little things like "is he treating you right? Because he should... you're amazing!".I cant think of anymore things off the top of my head but it was the little comments like that, that made me feel good and that I deserved more, and just put in my mind the seed of doubt about the guy, that helped in the end. I have one friend who would say this kind of thing alot and I always credit him with helping me leave that guy which resulted in me finding my (slightly) more normal husband 😄

Best of luck OP. Hope your daughter is OK. Those relationships are draining

It really is best to focus on her needs and feelings, and don’t mention him when you chat to her op.
Ask her if she is happy? Contented? Is she worried about anything? Don’t mention him at all, and she won’t then be put in a position of defending him, or her life or being disloyal.

It might be that if she stays with him you will have to adjust your expectations of him socially.

I would not want this for my dd I have to be honest. A very small and confined life without very much social interaction. I would be encouraging friendships, hobbies, focus on her career and studies, sports and activities. These will give her confidence, wider friendships and a life beyond him.

It's bad that this forum has degenerated so badly that an OP can't say everything they want to to get their point across for fear of being flamed.

Every. Single. Fucking. Post.

Could maybe one of her brothers say something to her?

Withdrawing politely isn’t sat fixated on your phone or disappearing mid game.

Withdrawing quietly is being polite and involved initially, and when your battery dies telling your hosts you have a headache/need some downtime and will he back soon - thanking them as you leave for making you feel so welcome/for dinner etc.

Wow. You are a saint. If they can mask to this degree, they know full well what they are doing.

He lived with you for six months. You must know him pretty well. Can't you ask him why he is being so odd?

If he is working up to leaving your dd after Christmas, you probably need to chat now- just say he seems different, and if she wants a break from it, to stay with you if she wants. I'm sure you could ve very subtle!

Tread carefully. My DW has a feeling my DM doesn’t like her. She might be right. If my DM said something I’d hate it as I’d always know and I don’t want to keep secrets from my wife. I’d also prob see my mum less as wouldn’t want to put DW in that situation knowing my mum doesn’t like her

Yep