To think those with at least ordinarily lives can’t understand despite being sympathetic?

[OJred]

My Mam was an alcoholic from I remember so 12 years old?!! The died when I was 21 from smoking.

Dad was an abusive psycho, abused my Mam a siblings emotionally, physically and was vile though I was lucky I escaped the physically abuse generally. Needless to say I have no relationship with him. I’m mid 40’s and have two kids who I’ve tried to shelter from that and give them the best life possible. Their dad is amazing, I’ve never drank in front of them (ones nearly 18 ones 14) as I hated it so never wanted to do that in front of my kids.

I took out loans and went to University to try to give my kids the best chance financially (and me as I had no parents
to rely on). I feel lucky I have a half decent income, though it’s been hard as there has been no help from parents financially, emotionally, zero help.

One of my DC is disabled too so that’s really difficult as I worry so much about them. Good job I don’t take a leaf out my mother’s book or I’d neck a bottle of vodka every night….! 🙄

So I find things hard because of my situation. My DH has none of the above to contend with and my DC aren’t his biologically and he thinks I’m pessimistic at times so tonight I’ve had it out with him. Very difficult childhood then chronic worry about own of my children who is unlikely to be independent. I get fed up of hearing about those who make their own “difficult situations” and I can’t be arsed with it.

I said to to my DH (who is close to his parents and sees the weekly
and that’s lovely) if you hadn’t see your mam for nearly 25 years and even before that she was always drunk and your dad was a selfish man who never bothered, you wouldn’t view life the same way as you do.

It made me think of judgmental people who haven’t experienced really shit childhoods and have had, what I consider ‘charmed lives’.

So I’m not interested in hearing from those with charmed lives. It’s those who have had it difficult through not fault or choice of their own, such as abusive parents etc.. or worse, those who have really poorly children as my heart breaks for their people as it’s out of their hands

Do you mean you do drink, just not when your children are around? If so, I would characterise that as 'problem' drinking ~ just not the usual problem of drinking to excess.

"Self-pity" is quite a loaded term, snd yes pitying onself can at times be detrimental. But is an adult survivor of abuse supposed to not feel sorry for their younger self, or their damaged adult self? Why shouldn't they, especially as no one intervened to keep them safe?

What happened to me as a child is the stuff of crime procedurals. You know when the investigators investigate a children's home, and... yeah. That sort of thing. I honestly would rather have died. No one in the world safeguarded me. And then I was expected to go about my early adulthood as if nothing had happened. Perhaps irrationally, but also understandably, I remember listening to people at uni proclaiming that they had really beaten the odds in making it to uni... because they'd gone to state school. Whilst I had, at the most crucial stages, been completely deprived of an education and subjected to such an extreme degree of institutional abuse as a child. It may not be logical but it is hard to sit through that and not feel invalidated and frustrated.

Recently, I was in an abusive relationship for far longer than I wished to be precisely because I have never in my life known safety, and because I don't have a loving, believing family waiting in the wings to take me in so it was logistically incredibly difficult to leave. Abusive relationships are often almost a natural consequence of having been abused as a child. My ExP experienced a lot of cognitive dissonance about this which exacerbated what happened: he was accustomed to using his own ACEs as a get out of jail free card for his behaviour, and seemed to feel that he was being invalidated by the fact that several of my friends had the same ACEs, and also that what had happened to me had broken as a scandal and was appearing in the news.

I am older now and I have processed a lot of things very cerebrally and productively, and am good at putting a philosophical spin on things. That doesn't stop me from inwardly feeling angry and upset when it seems like I am being held up to the same standards of attainment as people who weren't sadistically abused at foundational stages of life. I hope the counselling is helpful OP, do give it a go; your feelings matter. I am sorry you're in pain. 💐

@plsdontlookatme I'm so sorry you've had such a bad experience. As you say there's a certain amount that counselling can help with, though it doesn't 'fix' everything as some people seem to imply on here. I hope you've been able to find some happiness.

I keep thinking of The Four Yorkshiremen. I am trying not to.

I completely agree.

bad things happening to adults - while awful and horrible- are surmountable in a way that childhood trauma is not.

abuse and neglect as a child changes the way your brain and nervous system works. It makes people vulnerable and less able to deal with some of the horrible things that adult life throws at all of us.

it affects the very core of your being in a way that trauma as an adult does not.

That isn’t taking away from the pain others experience, but perhaps the OP just wants people ( like her DH) to acknowledge and validate the fact that she’s had it tougher than most.

Re your final point — ultimately, the OP can’t alter other people’s behaviour, however justified she feels it is to want some kind of external validation that her life has been extremely hard. I think she needs to stop looking outside herself for this validation, and work on coming to terms with the difficulties life has thrown at her in therapy. Trying to make other people behave in a particular way takes away her agency.

I had an abusive childhood, difficult start to adulthood and have a disabled child. Many of my friends have experienced lots of trauma, as has my DH and obviously my family. I do really think optimism is an mindset and not exclusive to those who had an easy life. I would say those of us who have had a tough start will likely find it harder to be optimistic and positive but many are very happy and grateful for the life they created for themselves. Similarly some people with good childhoods can be negative and pessimistic.

I had a great childhood but I have 3 brilliant (objectively and measurably) adult dc who are neurodivergent so have had real struggles with academia and mental health.

but we are very well off financially. My dh and I are very close.

what I’m trying to say is we are a cocktail of positives and negatives. Struggles and ease. What I’m most flabbergasted by are the number of people who can’t find sympathy or empathy for anyone with any struggle other than the one they themselves experienced.

i would like to think my struggles have made me conscious of other’s personal problems even if I have not experienced them. And grateful for the aspects of my life that are easy. .

@JLou08 I see your point, and personally I've got it better as an adult in part because I focus on the positives, and I've been lucky in some other areas, such as having good health, and being financially comfortable. Though even that can have it's flaws, I certainly put up with some bad relationships in the past because I tried to see the good in people, or was content and grateful for what (looking back) was the minimum, eg 'he doesn't hit me'.

There are also individual factors that are hard to change. I managed ok, I have siblings who haven't. I don't think I'm better than them, or that they made bad choices, just that things have affected us differently. We have different personalities, different levels of internal resilience. And as an adult, different support networks, different challenges.

Sending thoughts to anyone on this thread though, whether the tough times were in childhood or otherwise 💐

Yes I often think like this as well. I see so many things that my peers take for granted when it comes to their family. The things I’ve had to fight for have been handed to them etc. I also struggle with the “everyone has their own struggles” line because in my experience - it’s not the same. I’ve seen very wealthy people with supportive families cry over their issues and I’m left scratching my head wondering if the issues are in the room with us.

I don’t have a lot materially or a good supportive biological family but I do reason though that there are many things I have that people don’t. You only have to look at some of the population in 3rd world countries to appreciate that turning in a tap or having excessive food is just such a blessing. you have to start to focus on the positives and practicing gratitude.

I default to pessimism in general and especially Grinch at this time of year.
It’s my responsibility not to let this affect other people. Of course I wish I didn’t have an ACE score of 8 or 9. But the worst thing I could do is to let it influence other people’s lives as it can be adjacent to perpetuating harm.

In some ways this is similar to a conversation I had with my husband recently. I had a really bad childhood, parents who abused and mistreated me and who are no longer in my life and haven't been for many years.

As a result, I do not have the natural safety net of parents I could live with or borrow money from (or help me out in some other way) if something went wrong. I have many amazing close friends who would help me, but I do not have the default fall back.

My Husband finds it mad that I am very protective over my savings and money situation. He cannot comprehend that I am the only one who I can 100% rely on if our marriage broke down, or something happened to him.

Staying at a friend's house for a few weeks while a place to rent become available, is very different to being able to live at a parent's house for months on end whilst I decide where I live. One requires money already saved and ready to go, the other does not.

I think that people really do try to understand and from a logical point of view can get it but they will never feel it in their soul the way that we might.

it is not a race to the bottom op. I lost sympathy for you when you completely undermined the experience of women who go through miscarriages with a shit statistic of 1 in 2. You have no idea what other people have gone though. Everyone has different levels of resilience. Some people may have led ‘charmed’ lives but suffer with severe mental health issues or other health issues. It seems like you want a little pity party!

btw I have had some horrific experiences myself but I would never try to undermine someone else’s reality or pain like you have done.

Keep going to therapy.

But I do think that your idea of people who a haven't had an outwardly bad childhood having a charmed life is slightly off the mark. Whilst I agree that childhood trauma is the trauma that will shape you forever and happens when you are entirely powerless, horrendous things can happen to adults. These horrendous things can then shape someone's life forever more.

For example with me. Yes,I had a horrible childhood but I have been out of that situation for longer now than I was ever in it and I now have a far better life in many aspects than some people I know who did not have abusive childhoods.

I would go as far to say that a woman who had an absolutely amazing childhood but has been in an abusive relationship for the last 15 years has a significantly worse life and worse time than me.

I've read a few of your replies but not all so I don't know if you've mentioned it, but I really do think that you would benefit from counselling.

Of course if you have abusive, addicted or uncaring parents it's absolutely devastating. But I think it's not right to try and categorise other people's problems as all being of their own doing.

I lost my dad when I was 13 and that triggered very severe MH issues. But I know people with worse life threatening MH problems who haven't lost either parent and came from a loving, financially stable, non addict home. It doesn't mean it's their fault they're like that.

It damages us so much when our parents don't love us. It sounds like you've worked incredibly hard to break that cycle.

I grew up in an abusive home and had an abusive marriage. My mental health declined when bizarrely I was in the safest place I’d ever been in (I think I was finally safe to feel my emotions)
I got counselling, had some hypnotherapy, started being healthier in my choices.
I agree it does impact but also at some point you have to be responsible for your own life choices, it’s not healthy to keep circling back to the past. But I also recognise that moving on is not possible for everyone

Well I’ve had 4 miscarriages all before 12 weeks and no living children and I’m now too old to have any. So I will forever be childless. If you want to start comparing sadness where do I fit in? Do I have the right to be more or less sad than someone who has a later miscarriage/stillbirth but who also has a lovely family with lovely children?

This is why comparison doesn’t work. In your world people should feel more sorry for someone with a lovely family because they had one late loss than me who will be forever childless. (FYI. I’m not here saying I want sympathy or that I’ve had the worst ever. I have not. And I don’t want sympathy. Just that there are many nuances to people’s experiences meaning comparison doesn’t work most of the time).

Edited to add: I had a lovely childhood but both parents died of smoking related illness in their early 60s. No siblings. And if reading threads on here is anything to go by, if I was to lose my husband, there’s not a chance in hell I’ll be being invited to any of my in laws family Christmases or friends family Christmases so I’ll also be alone forever at Christmas. Cool.

Big hugs ❤️❤️

To be honest I really hate the term "playing the victim" it almost suggests that there is a 'correct' way to be a victim and a 'wrong' way which we know is untrue. This is important because its a big part of why certain aspects of our criminal justice system fail at times, because victims are in some way 'unlikeable' or don't behave in a particular way which is more likely to create sympathy in a judge or juror. It also suggests there's something disingenuous about op's trauma - that it's less than what she says it is. Also very problematic.

Whether op is empathetic or not has absolutely zero bearing on the fact she IS a victim. She was abused and she should never have gone through that. And she's entitled to feel however tf she feels about that. Most of the time I feel okay about what went on in my childhood but sometimes I really resent that. And the only way to properly process your feelings is to feel them unapologetically. So it's actually very ironic that people are telling op to move on, but to dismiss her feelings as those two things go hand in hand.

What you've been through is awful and I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But it also doesn't give you the right to demand someone stops wallowing or feeling sorry for themselves or that they have the emotional bandwidth to make space for everyone else's hardships. Grief (which is what op is processing) doesn't move to a particular timeline as much as we would like it to.

@OJred yes adversity in childhood is hard, not having safe, reliable parents impacts development without doubt. Having a child who you won’t see living independently as an adult is a particular type of pain. However, as adults we can recover and grow, we can build a life that is secure and safe for ourselves. Holding on to pain, resentments or a feeling of pessimism hurts ourselves even more. It’s like holding a hot coal and wondering why it hurts and why we don’t stop it.

Therapy can be very helpful, but however someone does it at some point you need to decide that recovery is both possible and desirable, that it’s worth working for. You can’t change what’s gone before, but you can decide how you want to be going forward.

You are allowing the baggage from the past to weigh you down. It’s keeping you fixed in a time and place that doesn’t exist anymore. Lots of people have had terrible childhoods. Or they may have had great childhoods but have had shit experiences as an adult. We are all trying to navigate life as best we can. The best thing you can do is have therapy I think. If not, just accept your childhood was rubbish but you survived it. Only you are holding on to the bad stuff now. Do you want to carry this attitude for the rest of your life. Childhood can fuck up your life, but you can fight it. Being bitter about other peoples supposedly better childhoods is not helping you. Be thankful for what you have achieved. Be grateful, be positive, let it go.

Deleted. I see that the original message was edited and that the reply above was written before the edit. Carry on!

You can also be a victim without making it your entire personality, as many people on this thread with similar upbringings and life circumstances to the OP have attested to. Or you can choose to remain stagnant and self-pitying, which won’t help you in the long run. The OP has been dismissive, rude and unkind when others have mentioned their own traumatic experiences, which is why she is getting less sympathy than she otherwise might have. “Treat others as you would like to be treated,” is a good life rule whatever you have gone through, in my opinion. “Not having the bandwidth” for other people’s trauma doesn’t excuse poor behaviour and treating people badly.

Also, you don’t know what people deal with. I only found out by chance that a woman with three young kids has had breast cancer return and lost her mum and sister to it years ago. She must be constantly on edge worrying about it. But you wouldn’t know it unless you know it. And the nurse at our private school said there were several cases of neglect/abuse going on but it’s not talked about as it’s handled privately. One parent only recently was convicted of being guilty of the most extreme category of child and animal abuse and I’ve sat next to him at dinner, know his wife well and he has two daughters - who knew? From the outside the most charmed lives can be actually quite horrific.
But sure there must be some who have managed to avoid any trauma. But I think scratch the surface and most people’s polished veneer will be exposed as covering a lot of heartache. How they deal with it is key.