To think there should be more positive narratives for men and boys

[MarieCelestial]

I would never argue that the highlighting of all of the bad and in some cases illegal things some men have done to women, individually and collectively, is anything other than a good thing. Metoo was a crucial social chance for change which was partly grasped.

I do however try to empathise with the position of, say an 18 year old male young person today, in a western country, They are bombarded with toxic nonsense from criminals like Andrew Tate. Almost all the things they hear through social media may be highly negative about men and masculinity.

Would it not be an idea for there to be more creativity about how male especially make heterosexual behaviour is presented, including, and not exclusively on TV.
Take the recent Eastenders storyline about a young boy committing violence and behaving egregiously to women. All well and good to present and examine this behaviour. In the same programme you have a deeply violent alcoholic character Phil Mitchell whose very violence seems to attract a string of attractive women to him. The protector syndrome perhaps? Either way, he is an awful person. Yes, ok, he is not exactly someone to model yourself on, but where oh where are the counterweights. Name me a male character in a film or tv show who has interacted (especially in an unconventional way) well. Not perfectly, but well?

Ed Sheeran seems nice. Marcus Rashford and Andy Murray.
i wouldn’t expect to find perfect role models, we’re all a mix of good and bad, but lots of good behaviours.

Men overwhelmingly control the narrative and still can't present themselves as good guys? And it's somehow down to us to do it for them?

Name me a male character in a film or tv show who has interacted (especially in an unconventional way) well. Not perfectly, but well?

Jack Reacher.
Nolan in the The Rookie
All the male cast of 911
Male cast of Blue Bloods
Geralt in the Witcher
the list goes on…….

Andy Murray is a great role model as not only was he incredibly successful in his field but he also called out assumptions and sexism against his female colleagues. But definitely agree it’s the men in boys’ lives that make the biggest difference.

I completely agree with you. I think a really good role model for young men is the singer Sam Fender - wholesome and vulnerable music that appeals to a young, male audience. As a woman, I’ve often felt really touched and moved by the number of dads with sons at his gigs, and also at the number of guys bawling their eyes out at his lyrics. So, role models are out there but I think it’s an awful lot of pressure for one individual to carry and there needs to be a broader spectrum of good male role models, both at the local/community level and in the celebrity space too.

We’ve had to interact with lots of paramedics over the years. Most have been men and wonderful role models.

in a deserted spot, more often than not, we're not

In places with men around? Yes, much safer!

Andy Murray is a brilliant shout - can’t believe I didn’t think of him!

Our school is looking at "progressive masculinity". Toxic masculinity absolutely needs recognising and calling out, but the positives around being "masculine" need exploring too. Sometimes the boundaries can be quite blurry e.g. going to the gym for health vs being sucked into a culture of steriods for an aesthetic hard man image.

A lot comes down to being able to recognise and express emotions, and not feeling that it's a weak, un-manly thing to do.

Being male isn't inherently wrong.

Schools can work well with the peer connection side of things, but they can't do it all. It's a huge, complex issue through all layers of society.

As a parent, I hope that my sons have a healthy relationship with their "masculinity". I've tried not to stereotype them and let them be themselves and explore that. We talk about the household being a team with different roles being of equal value as part of the package of family life. I've wanted to raise children to be decent, functional human beings regardless of their sex.

Name me a male character in a film or tv show who has interacted (especially in an unconventional way) well. Not perfectly, but well?

Phil Dunphy.

I love that character. And the amount of women I know who watch Modern Family and think he would be a “great husband” is unreal.

Joe Wicks? Hard working, enthusiastic, sets a good example about physical fitness, family man, has a successful business?

This is an excellent point.

Another good shout. I’m really sad I couldn’t think of any. I’m going to ponder why this is.
Raising 3ds on my own, sadly they have not come into contact with any decent male role models - maybe the odd teacher or sports coach but the majority of family (my dad, their dads) all exude toxic masculinity so I have tried very hard to veer them away from that in the way I allow them to speak, use certain phrases, behave at home with chores etc and thus far it seems to be working but I am wondering if I have done wrong by too much of pointing out well known men that they shouldn’t emulate rather than focus on well known men they should emulate. I am so determined they will not be the kind of man spoken about on here, that their future partners will not hate me for them not knowing how to turn a washing machine on etc etc that I am worried I haven’t given them enough positives about being a man - if that makes sense. I don’t know, I’m just musing and tired!

Joe wicks, Andy Murray…even non celebrities like Paramedic being mentioned. They are all good role models to an extent in terms of how they model themselves in public, but you have no real idea
now they behave in private. With partners, with children etc. Andy Murray could be a
complete and utter arsehole to his wife for all we know (not suggesting he is). The real test is how people behave behind closed doors when there’s no cameras or threat of public backlash. Exactly the same for police, paramedics, doctors, nurses etc etc etc. In fact it’s dangerous to say I’ve never met a paramedic who wasn’t loverly for example. It’s naive and to generalise is to set expectations and can lead someone putting yourself in vulnerable situation.
As OP stated what is needed is better depictions of men on tv and the media doing mundane things like handling conflict in relationships, handling depression, dealing with other toxic males etc. etc. not hero celebrities acting for the camera.

Yes - I want to see characters in tv shows who are decent men.

All the men in Brooklyn 99 are pretty decent (well, not Hitchcock and Scully! But that gets called out a lot).

Michael in Mum, Ricky Gervais’s character in After Life, the dad in Outnumbered. The fellas in The Detectorists are warm and funny, if a bit wanting. The dad in Friday Night Dinner, and the sons.

The dad in Danny The Champion of the World. The BFG.

Mr Weasley in Potter.

Elis & John (podcast). John Robins in particular is does a strong line in positive masculinity - watch his stage shows (Bandcamp). More for your young adult sons though (sexual content). I went with my husband to see his show Howl and London’s Apollo was filled with white men who looked more ‘salt of the earth’ than your usual theatre goers. It was excellent.

There’s definitely positive male role models out there in real life, the ones that come to my mind are; JB Gill, Chris Ramsay, Jordan Stephens (esp for showing how you can change), Hamza Yassin, Gareth Southgate.

Fictional characters are a bit harder but that may be because I like shows with female leads!

My youngest is 17 1/2, he’s vaguely aware of the likes of Andrew Tate but thinks he’s a prick. I’d hardly say he was bombarded with toxic nonsense but then we don’t watch the likes of Eastenders etc

The biggest issue is women having children with inappropriate partners.

If every child was brought up in a solid 2 parent family it would resolve the bulk of the problem.

The reality is there is a huge socio economic factor that is heavily correlated with the prevalence of single parent families but people like to pretend that’s not the case which simply serves to exacerbate the issue.

Men are quite good at hiding their unsuitability to be fair so I don't think you can blame women's choices. This also puts the responsibility on women not men.

I remember the fuss men made of the Gillette advert featuring men carrying out acts of kindness.
Men have to sort themselves out and act decently. Even if womentry teach their sons to behave in a decent way they will always see their dads as role models, it's down to them

Do women also hide their unsuitability or just men? Is it hiding from either or not wanting to see what is in front of them and what other people clearly see?

How many times have people around others warned them and how many times are they listened too?

There are loads of good man, but some women have a habit of destroying them.

There needs to be a lot more coverage of how toxic we can be. It needs to be spoken about a lot more. TicTok is absolutely rammed with reels of women mocking and belittling men. Its become perfectly acceptable to openly humiliate and embarrass them. This has to change. This forum is full of posts about how men should treat women. But we never talk about how women should treat men.

Totally agree with you op, I think it's just a hard balance. I would love to see us championing men more for stepping up or ideally for going above and beyond rather than just doing what they should be doing anyway. I know this then leads into the issue of a huge double standard over what we praise men for and what we praise women for. But I feel like if you have two children and you repeatedly tell one well done aren't you just the best at sharing you share so well etc, and the other it was wrong when you didn't share... the first is more likely to continue the behaviour you want? I look at my ds and as a lone parent it genuinely really worries me what and who will fill the gap of his father in terms of a positive male role model in his life. I don't want him growing up seeing me do all the cleaning or cooking etc and thinking I do that because I'm a woman as opposed to because it's just us and there's no other adult there to do it with me. So as soon as he could toddle about I've had him doing 'chores' and cleaning up after himself. It also really jumps out to me how much it makes him feel confident and proud of himself. I don't think a lot of young men get the opportunity to feel that in themselves anymore and they're rapidly falling behind girls in a range of areas from social outlets in youth clubs to educationally and it is a worry, especially with the rise of misogynistic and harmful content online. Honestly I think the best thing we could do for them at this point is limit their access to the online world and smart phones until they're a bit older and have developed more critical thinking skills.