Gone too far this evening - advice please

[advent25]

A local evening out with DH has escalated - and I’m not sure how we go back from this . for context both in our 40s with two children (one with SEN - I am main carer). I also work full time and carry majority of mental load for household.

For background there is history with DH excessive drinking and this has ramped up again this last few months - he’s been unhappy at work which I have been supportive of as I have some understanding of the industry. About the drink - I’ve said there is a tipping point for me & that more support is needed and he has agreed to counselling only last week but done nothing about it yet..I feel it’s lip service as this is ongoing. He is also on medication for depression which clearly won’t be helped by the drink .

So tonight he seemed to want to pick a fight when we got home - as I wanted to go home earlier than he did - it was almost midnight and we both have work today and needed to get home to our children. He was very nasty and kept insulting me - said I was ‘boring’ and ‘no fun ‘ and I had changed since we got together in our 20s!! For clarity I stood my ground , didn’t get emotional and asked what point he was trying to make etc as I’m generally happy with our lives and always the one to arrange stuff for us to do as a couple or family.,

This is against a backdrop of several nights out / drinking until early hours for him and Christmas parties etc in recent weeks so not as if he has gone without in terms of fun etc . I’m also not sleeping well at all which is partly due to the ongoing stress of all this but also that he is well aware of.

For added context over indulgence at Christmas has been an issue for several years and has caused family arguments - there is history of of problematic drinking for many years but I feel this has come to a head in that it’s now about my own boundaries of what I can live with as I know I can’t change it.

i would welcome advice please - this is a 20 year relationship and we are generally in love so I thought but after tonight don’t feel he even likes me. Married for many years. Enjoy each others company (so I thought ) if we could take the issue of excessive drinking away but also know I can’t make the change.

No no no. Alcoholism is an illness, yes. But alcoholism also destroys families. Alcoholics are selfish and cannot prioritise the needs of the loved ones over drink. Living with a parent like this is deeply traumatic. The OP’s number one priority is her children.

There is no way to “help” or “support” an alcoholic. They are in the grip of something much bigger than themselves and they are the only ones who can change it. “Supporting” an alcoholic is basically enabling it: saying its OK to carry on.

OP I’m sorry to be blunt but you have to separate for the sake of your children. You have to protect them from this.

Its possible that when your OH realises what he is going to lose he will take control and get some help but you can’t count on that. Most alcoholics don’t recover.

I am sorry but you and your children come first.

Also be aware that although some posters rightly said that you may be in for a rough time in the near future, you equally might get Mr So Sorry Sweet Kind Love Bombing Just Like The Old Days I Won't Do It Again husband. That is a facade and it wont last. My brother does this when he wants something or has completely blown it with everyone. It works because underneath it all there's a germ of a really likeable guy and it preys on the hope that things have changed and the future will be happier.

It needs to be ultimatum time. He chooses between family life or alcohol as it cannot be both.

And he absolutely needs counselling.

It's not surprising you've had enough. How dare he say you are boring! It's called life changes and the responsibility of being a parent and having fun in different ways.

If he wants to live his life getting wasted like a single bloke does then he can leave.

Re this specific situation, was there a reason you had to leave together? Personally i think its ok for one person to leave and one to stay later - i am a night owl and love partying until the wee small hours but would have no issue with a partner leaving early if they were tired.

In the wider context though what you describe is an alcoholic, if he isnt willing to get help or try to change then its ok to set your own boundaries and leave if thats the right thing, but thats a conversation to have sober - you cannot rationalise with a drunk person.

Alcoholism is a serious addiction but it's also a spectrum - there are many high functioning alcoholics who never abuse their family.

One of my brothers was an alcoholic. He was the kindest man you'd ever encounter. He was never aggressive or abusive - when he was drunk he cried, telling us all how awful he was. He worked all his life, attended school meets with teachers, and his children, and all of us adored him. But his children still bear the scars of seeing his father being completely incoherent and paraplegic when we picked him up from a bar, and even if they adored him, they never forgot the shame.

He quit drinking when he was told his liver function was at 25% and he'd be dead in 2 years if he didn't quit. He did it cold turkey with the help of medication because he wanted to live.

Alcoholism doesn't affect everyone in the same way but it's a serious addiction with serious impact on the family and children even without abuse.

Apologies for getting off tangent with the OP issues, but alcohol addition is way underreported as a problem. Mostly is because alcoholic abuse with their families is well represented in the press, but there is a much more insidious problem without abuse that goes underrepresented with still devastating consequences for families, specially small children.

Even though you are upset today, it’s actually good it got to this stage as it was rumbling on and now it’s out in the open. He has a drink problem and you are not living like that any more. he has to stop or he has to go.

The very best to you I hope you and your children have a happy life whatever happens next xx

He clearly has a drinking problem which he seems to have vaguely acknowledged. If he isn’t willing to get help for it, there’s little you can do. You can take a horse to water… He’s using it to cope but it isn’t exactly turning him into a nicer character to be around. Some drunks are affable, others turn nasty and he sounds like the latter.

I’d explain the full effects it’s having on you and your family when he’s sober and insist he contacts an AA support group ASAP. Not sure ultimatums will work but you may be left in a situation eventually where he chooses you or the drink.

I have been a long time lurker and I have never commented/posted, but your situation OP stuck a cord especially as I think I have a slightly different view which most people won’t understand if it’s not their lived experience.

You mention you have two children, one whom is SEN, you’ve not mentioned their ages or the impact this has on your lives, but I suspect this potentially could be more profound than you’ve written or maybe you’ve realised (apologies if I am making assumptions here).

Men don’t always handle the emotional strain/stress as well as women when it comes to SEN and all the associated extra life admin and they can resent the loss of a perceived normal life, which can lead to using drink/drugs etc as a crutch to escape. Having an SEN child changes us and we are not the fun person they originally knew, how can we be our worlds are suddenly upside down.

Mine, through the toughest of years was the gym (obviously a less destructive option) and I can honestly say that it was my lifeline, a little bit of escapism, me time and somewhere to workout my frustrations and be me, not mum, not mother, not wife, not lover, just me…

Apologies again if I have made too many assumptions reading between the lines, but surviving a broken support system with SEN kids and then add in the kids, pushes the strongest of marriages/partnerships to its limits.

I really wish you both the strength to work this out together or apart 💐

The alcohol is likely to be the root cause of his depression in the first place and there are no excuses for his heavy drinking. You can't make him seek help or get better, he has to do this on his own and without prompting/ultimatums. All you can do here is protect yourself and your children from his mood swings. And that means living separately. Love isn't enough here.

How many of us who were married to/in relationships with addicts felt like we "owed it" to our partners/spouses/family members to do our best to help them recover? I know I felt that way too - you know, I (and countless others in my position) took our wedding vows/commitments seriously. And how many of us stayed way too damned long, trying every possible thing to help our partners/spouses to recover, putting that before everything else? How long do you think we should have stayed? In my case it was just under 7yrs: I know others who stayed longer, doing all they could. Hindsight is an amazing thing, and I should have got out years before I did.

Did I not stay long enough? Did I not do enough? I spent a five figure amount of money to put my ex through private residential rehab, not to mention the cost of countless appointments for counsellors, psychologists etc. He gaslit me, he lied consistently. He blamed me for being boring, or not being supportive enough. He'd go to AA meetings, but then walk out and head to the pub (DC were small then, so I couldn't wait outside the AA place). He then figured that he could drink, but use cocaine to mask being so drunk (I'd smell the alcohol on him, but he appeared sober - I found out about the Class A's right at the end). My career was stalled during that time, as I didn't have the strength to go for extra training/promotions etc whilst dealing with an alcoholic husband, parenting 2DC and being the breadwinner. My MH was shot, and my physical health was starting to deteriorate. I couldn't plan a damned thing as I never knew how he'd be from one day to the next. His antics put my own job at risk - I'd be at work and he'd go awol so I'd have to run and get the DC from school/childcare...or I'd wake in the morning to get ready for work and he'd be gone (so I'd have to scramble about trying to find someone to have the kids so I could be on the ward for a 7am start). Even now, I start to shake when I smell vodka or whiskey on someone's breath. Are you suggesting that I - and others like me - didn't do our best, or have somehow failed?

When I met XH, I fell in love with him, and when I married him, he didn't have these problems. He was an amazing guy (still is, when he is sober). But when he became an alcoholic/addict, there was nothing I could do to help him (despite me being an HCP of over 25yrs, I kidded myself that I could help him). He had to be the one who helped himself. Part of me is still in love with the guy that I met all those years ago, but I couldn't stay with him, nor could I put myself or my DC through what he was doing to us (oh and I did my utmost to try and shield them from XH's drunkeness). So I had to reaffirm boundaries, stick to them and get the hell out.

If helping an alcoholic partner/spouse/family member was akin to helping someone who has a serious physical illness (and believe me, as a nurse looking after some of the most acutely ill patients outside of an ITU, I do NOT say that lightly), then my XH would have been sober and clean bloody years ago, and we would still be married.

OP, the advice I have for you? Look after yourself and the children. Put yourself and the DC first. Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. You can't change his behaviour or have control over his drinking (ultimatums rarely work, and you have to stick to them), but you can put in boundaries and ensure you get support for yourself and your children. The only person who can address the drinking is him - it's hard work and he has to want to do it for himself (and that involves taking a long hard look at himself and acknowledging the problems). Make plans (plan A, B, C etc), and get yourself to the point where if a boundary you have is crossed, you can act. Also, remember that there is no shame in having boundaries and not wanting to put up with this sort of behaviour. Read some of the threads on here: it was a post from years ago (Pointythings post) that I followed on here that helped open my eyes, and helped me to realise that I had to get out, that it wasn't my shame to carry, and that I wasn't a failure for saying, "enough is enough".

Maybe you’ve just grown apart? Maybe he is right in that sense, you find his alcoholism concerning and he’s totally blind to it. It’s okay, for that to be non-negotiable for you.

It's bog standard pisshead speak for 'You aren't centring me and my wish to be permanently pissed whilst waited on like an Emperor at the expense of everybody else, including vulnerable children'.

Do not, for one minute believe that your kids dont know what is going on.
Dont try to fool yourself... they will know... they always know.
For their sakes, if not your own, get out of this situation.

Your husband has an alcohol abuse problem and his alcohol use is also interfering with his mental health treatment.

You can't do it for him. He has to recognize he's got a problem and seek treatment. But you don't have to stay. His main relationship is with alcohol and he's treating you badly.

Your kids have likely seen and heard more than you think. A lot of parents say their kids hear and see nothing but they're in denial as to how the substance abuse is affecting their kids.

I grew up with an alcoholic parent and this will not be a good ride for them.

You haven't been back, OP, and I am wondering if the talk of alcoholism is freaking you out.

I excused my exH's drinking for years and never saw it as alcoholism because it wasn't all the time, he held down a good job, didn't drink all day every day etc.

BUT when he drank on a night out he could never stop, he could never have just one & come home, same at family gatherings. He developed a high tolerance for alcohol so it took a while for the impact to be obvious on a night out and it was most obvious when he got home.

He wasn't a violent or unpleasant drunk but I hated it all the same. And he was unfaithful to me, no doubt due to drink on some occasions.

It took me a long time to properly accept that he had a serious problem with alcohol and that it figured highly and negatively in our lives. He was an alcoholic because he had an unhealthy & uncontrolled relationship with alcohol.

We ended due to the infidelity but had that not come fully to light I think drink would have ended it for us.

As I said previously, he has since worked on it and now doesn't drink at all. It was too late for us because of the infidelity issues but it's good for his children and he has a new relationship.

It's not too late for you. I hope your DH will act and use the widely available support to make changes.

Me too. Well done for your days.

these Christmas threads fill me with guilt and shame because it’s very confronting to see the awful effect of the alcoholic on the rest of the family. That was me. Destroying lives around me.

I don’t have any advice op except to wish you well and tell you that unless the alcohol use stops then nothing else will work.

it was a Christmas when I went too far too. Deep shame. Traumatised children. I’ll never forgive myself. But I have never picked up another drink and I truly never believed I could go a day without drinking. It’s been 20 sober christmases since then.

sorry to anyone going through this.

(one with SEN - I am main carer). I also work full time and carry majority of mental load for household.

Forget about the drinking - I can’t get past this!

So you both work full time but yet you are the main carer for your DC AND you do the majority of the house stuff - why??

Without the alcohol part, I would have ended things a long time ago.

This relationship is completely unequal.
You might love him but he does not like or respect you.

I think the drinking is such a big focus that you (perhaps unintentionally) ignore all the other bad parts in your relationship.

I would say he should get help for his drinking etc but that wouldn’t fix all of the other problems and so I’m not sure I could be bothered fighting for this when he obviously isn’t bothered.

The bottom line is that he loves alcohol more than he loves you.

@DonutsWin and @ADHDdiagnosis , well done both of you for stopping and for your recovery. It is so heartening to see people who have got through this awful addiction. It's an amazing achievement that should be celebrated. The acknowledgment of the bad times and seeing people who have done something about it really mean the world to someone like me. x

He is an alcoholic. Alcoholics don’t take responsibility for anything, their behaviour, their aggression, their drinking, their overspending, the way they damage their partners and childrens lives.

As soon as you accept this @advent25 you will find that there is only one way for you to deal with your alcoholic and that is for you to take control of your life for your own sake and for your childrens sake. You are not responsible for his life and wellbeing. He has to sort that out for himself.

This.
@advent25 - imagine that the drinking is just not a problem. What is the marriage like then?
You seem to think that if it wasn't for the drink, it would all be fine.
It wouldn't.
He is still immature, or going through a mid-life crisis, blaming you for not being "fun" and saying you have changed, wishing you were both was 20 again.
Even without the drink, you would still have children with more difficulties than he can handle - and he is not actually doing much anyway.

The drink is a symptom of him being immature and selfish. He will still be that way even if he stops drinking.
Only you know if this is a phase he is going through, a temporary crisis, or if he is fundamentally selfish and childish and always has been.
I suspect the latter.

@TicTac80 your post really resonated with me as someone who was also married to an alcoholic though not one as extreme as your XH.

But I totally recognise that cycle of hope and disappointment when another promise is broken and help given is thrown back in your face. And the way the shame and the sense of being in permacrisis eats away at your mental and physical health.

You cannot “help” an alcoholic. Revovery is an extremely long and hard road which many don’t succeed at. But the thing that is absolutely depends on is for it to be driven by the individual. Going along with someone else’s recovery plan is a fast road to relapse and resentment.

The excessive drinking isnt an issue its who hes choosing to be.

If hes still out drinking, and "talking" about help its who hes continuing to choose to be and apparently thats ok because youll go drinking with him until midnight. Which based on your OP was OKish until he said you werent fun?!?

YABU for engaging in his destructive behaviour whilst complaining about it.

It's also a choice.

I feel your pain and frustration OP. I married an alcoholic. Christmases ruined by the drinking ramping up. Treading on eggshells. The promises and let downs. The Jekyll and Hyde personalities. The nice side convinces us of change. The nasty side convinces us that change isn’t possible but still we hang in there forgiving and forgetting. One night it all came to a head. Now he hasn’t had a drink for nearly 24 years. He stopped because he realised if he didn’t he would lose us and if he lost us he’d be dead. It IS possible but they have to want to do it off their own bat xx