AIBU or is my DD - bedroom privacy

[Settingstory]

I have 2 DD’s in their 20’s and I am very happy to have them still living at home while they save up for the future. I’m lucky we can afford to offer this to them, they don’t pay any rent with the intention they are saving this for their future. They both work full time.

Backstory is I was a single mum to them their whole childhood, just us 3 living together and when they became adults I met someone and we got married he’s a great supportive stepdad to my girls. He is also fine with the principal of them not paying rent as we are in a good position financially and times are tough out there.

The deal with no rent is they are expected to keep their own room clean and tidy and not make mess in the main house. The girls can eat any of the food in the house if they want to.

My oldest DD1 is neurodiverse (AuADHD) she makes no mess in the main house and she keeps her room fairly clean and tidy because ‘that was the deal’. She says she appreciates she has a very good deal and I don’t go into her room for any reason. She often buys her own food, she’s respectful and always asks politely to use the washing machine, things like that.

You can probably guess where this is going. My DD2 is the complete opposite and it’s causing arguments. I’ve tried giving her the benefit of the doubt but I think she is mostly just lazy.

Her room is awful and I am often having to go in there when she’s out to turn off all the lights/TV she leaves on (I’m paying the bills and these appliances get hot)

take the glasses and plates down (so many of them) and retrieve the 10 bath towels she has taken to use (and we have none clean left).

There is always a full up bin and rubbish/food all over the floor, and that’s if you can even get into the door from the 7 to 8 loads of laundry all over the place blocking the door.

She leaves her shoes all over the hallway, never loads the dishwasher after she cooks.

It’s all kicked off in a ridiculous way of DD2 yelling ‘respect my privacy’ (South Park style) when I’ve been in her room yet again to retrieve 12 glasses, 7 plates, 5 towels and turn the TV off.

I’m asking DD2 just to do these things herself, nothing more and we now have a standoff apparently where she says she doesn’t feel like her own person and I am helicopter parenting and she wants to install a lock! I’ve said absolutely no way she is having a lock on the door, the room is a fire hazard. She has even offered to pay rent just so I have ‘nothing to hold over her’.

I did explain I have better things to do in life than sort out another adults mess so if she could keep it tidy, I would have NO reason to go in there.

AIBU? I do go in her room even though she asks me not to! But I think I have good reason!

Is there any chance that your DD2 may also be neurodiverse? I didn't recognize it in my DD2, even though I am, until she went to university, because she is incredibly good at masking and has a different set of traits to me. I am incredibly untidy and she is incredibly tidy.

As you probably know, an inability to tidy up is common with ADHD (I have this). As you probably also know, ND often runs in families.

Part of being a good parent is preparing your children to live as independent, healthy adults. Your daughter is learning how to take care of her space with your methods, but it isn't working with the OP's daughter. OP's daughter is stuck in teenager mode and having tantrums at "room inspections." So what should the OP try instead?

Ah. I have a lot of sympathy for that. One of my own clear warning signs for a bad depressive episode is a growing pile of washing up to do.

I found CBT actually quite helpful with this. Also list making with some very tiny tasks for quick, easy wins. It may seem ridiculous to give yourself a reward for taking a towel back to the bathroom or a mug back to the kitchen, but sometimes that’s what’s needed. So, I would try not to be confrontational, but encouraging. Acknowledge that this is hard for her. Ask what else she’s struggling with. How can you help and support?

I strongly suspect both your daughters are ND. My sister was exactly like your younger daughter. The rigid thinking she is right and the lack of insight is probably worth noticing. My sister lived as if environmental health should get involved for years e.g. she would put dirty dishes in cupboards rather than wash up and then not use the cupboard because of the mould etc. Ultimately she married someone who now spends his time cleaning up her messes, cooking for her, doing her laundry etc. If someone has become an adult without maturing into adult responsibilities at some point you have to realise they won't change because you ask them to and you shouldn't be the one picking up her slack. I think it's worth systemising things so she gets used to them eg at 9pm everyday an alarm goes off on your phone that says tell DD2 to bring down all the dirty crockery and glasses from her room and wash them up. You will get grief from her the first week and then it will become a routine that she will hopefully keep up into her future. The day before the bins go out set an alarm on your phone so you say to her it's Wednesday, put all your rubbish in a bin liner and put it in the bin. The first month will be rough so if your DD1 would be amenable you could do this to both of them so DD2 can see it's not a big deal. Ultimately DD2 will prefer living in a cleaner room and when she moves out her brain will automatically tell her at 9pm she washes up and she puts rubbish out the day before bin collection.

YANBU. But the way you tackle this hugely stressful issue will affect not just the success of getting her to make changes now. But also her future relationship with cleaning. No pressure! The weight of being a parent, while managing our own challenges and workload. And feeling the echoes of how cleaning was for us growing up. The guilt and shame of wider family knowing, yikes.

In my experience, supporting them with hacks to make a dent in it, help. As the person often hates the clutter and dirt too. And if she is depressed right now, I'm sure you're supporting with that, as best as one can these days

I'd agree with some of the tips others have said. Give her a black bin bag for landfill, white bag for recycling, boxes for charity donations.

Temporarily remove permission to eat in her room. Or, new rule, she brings dirty crockery and glasses down before taking new ones up/leaving the house.

Move towel storage where you can oversee it being one in, one out. Or label them all with names/colour code - when it's her last one: Laundry time.

Offer to body double, be there while she has a tidy. To help, or just hang out, be DJ for music choices, read, fetch and carry stuff that needs to be taken out of the room. I know this may be harder with her being older, the fact privacy is already a battleground and she may be too ashamed to have you there.

Maybe she'd accept help from a trusted friend or family member? My retired MIL is upstairs helping DD15 in her room now. MIL (neat freak side of the family) is putting up fairy lights and giving advice while DD tidies, Christmas tunes on.

I don't have experience of parenting 20+ year olds, my eldest is 18. I know mine will be at home well into their 20s though, economy and circumstances. I dread to think what we have to come.

Paying rent will not stop you from having to round up all your dishes when you have none left in the cupboards, even if you buy her stuff that is just for her use she will run out and then use yours rather than tidy up, my parents went through it with one of my siblings.
She may have mental health issues as you say the lack of self care may be depression but once it starts affecting you as a family a line has to be drawn somewhere.
I would give her a timeline and expect her to move out after a set period, it is not fair for her or anyone else to be constantly battling about it.
In a shared house no one will usually enter each other rooms so she can live in whatever state she wants.
I totally understand why your other child is conforming to the rules my eldest is ND and would follow the rules, ie I do this which means I can then get this, most fully functioning adults would also see it as a fair deal.
I would allow your other daughter to live how she chooses, just not in your house.

First post nails it

Agree with the people who say to get a cleaner. I live with someone is depressed and cleanliness is a problem. Got a cleaner, now they feel external pressure and will actually have a tidy and put things where they belong.

You're not a skivvy for adults and they could equally contribute to the cost, if you want to make it less personal.

Kick her out. Simple. She's got an incredible deal from you & is so lucky yet she's deliberately & repeatedly throwing it in your face. Enough is enough. If she wants privacy, then she can have all she likes by moving out. She's clearly not going to change & she'll continue to walk all over you unless you force the issue.

She wants the privileges of being an adult whilst continuing to behave like a spoilt and stroppy child.

I would tell her she would likely be much happier moving out. And I wouldn't accept this "I'll pay rent so then you have nothing to hold over me" ridiculousness. Even paying rent you have a responsibility to live with some decency and respect for those around you.

If you think there is possibly a depressive side, how is she socially? Does she have a partner, good friends etc?

I used to drive my dad insane with my mess at home but I didn’t have great storage and he was obsessive about order so was never going to be the easiest combo. However, I learnt to do matter and your daughters will even if it takes more emotional effort than people who are naturally tidy.

I suspect my eldest will be like your youngest. She’s a natural whirlwind and leaves stuff where it drops. I am trying really hard to get them to learn while they’re still primary aged to clear up after themselves. It is already the biggest source of tension in our house. I’d not manage it with young adults as it already drives me nuts.

"I'll respect your privacy when you respect my property."

Give her a deadline- either she keeps to the bargain by end Jan or she moves out. Say you 100% promise not to go in there between now and end Jan but if it’s not in a decent state by 31 Jan, she needs to leave by 14 February. No animosity just factual. She can live how she wants but not in your house.

The longer she stays and lives like this the worse it is for her- you’re letting her get away with terrible habits which won’t make her happy in the long run.

Reading this and your other posts really makes me think that she’s on the autism spectrum, especially the stubbornness and rigid thinking. Has she ever been assessed?

Just ask her to move out.

what do you mean by “main house”? Do they live in an annexe?

You've just described my eldest two, but the other way around. My eldest is a disaster area, she just got diagnosed as an adult with AuDHD, she just presents really differently to my middle child, because it hadn't been picked up, her mental health was also awful as she couldn't find a way through the mess and inability to function as the adult she wanted to be. She's better since she's been on meds and with a lot of counselling. I'm not making excuses for your child but given you already have ND in the family, you may be missing what's right in front of you.

She can either fine and sulk and put a lock on the door in her own house, or abide by your house rules about hygiene.

Towels- give everyone their own set to keep in their own room.

shared spaces. We also have another space they can use outside of the house. DD will also leave that place in a mess too. Take chargers out there and not bring them back in etc

I think so too. A lot of what the OP is saying is laziness or stubbornness could actually by ND. It is often hereditary so if you have one DC diagnosed, the other DC are also likely to be ND.

Has the possibly of ND ever come up with her @Settingstory? Have you read up on inattentive ADHD? How does she feel about getting assessed?

A lot of the suggestions here would have been appropriate with a 15 year old.
I don't think OP is going to change anything anyway, there seems to be a degree of co-dependency here. (Which is fine of course, it's your home, your life etc.).

Why are you even arguing with her? It’s your house - tell her to shape up or ship out. No way would anyone be showing me that level of disrespect in my own house!

She doesn’t have many other traits in all honesty. I did a quiz on her today for ADHD and ASD out of interest it was low.

The ND comments get me confused as it clouds my decision making and makes me hesitant to act and then it goes on longer!

I get on well with her generally, but those around me say she plays me like a fiddle. I think I’m a bit blind to her antics until they really annoy me. It all kicked off yesterday about mess, and she’s been at home all day and she’s done nothing

I have AuDHD. Staying tidy is bloody hard. I’m also chronically ill.

But! Disgusting habits like bleeding on the mattress and festering pots etc need dealing with. Piles of paper or clean pots don’t make people sick, festering biohazards do.

You have mentioned that she may be depressed? I’m sure there is a link between a messy room/ house and depression (may have first read it on this site). Does she look presentable when she is out? Does she complete self care tasks?

The possibility of ND shouldn’t make you stop doing anything though.

You can talk to her about the possibility of ND or depression and how getting a diagnosis might help her understand herself better.

You can read up the different types of ADHD.

I really would recommend ignoring what others say as well.

We do far more for our DD than you’d expect for a DC of her age, but we do it because she needs us to.

Generally speaking those giving the advice haven’t had to parent a ND child and have zero idea of how different it can be. Listening to others and getting frustrated with DD2 may potentially damage your relationship with her. Much better to look for opportunities to bolster her confidence, strengthen your relationship and hopefully start to help her build skills that she will need to keep her room clean.

For the periods I make sure she has the STs she likes in the toilet, in her work bag and very visibly in her room so she remembers that they’re there.