AIBU or is my DD - bedroom privacy

[Settingstory]

I have 2 DD’s in their 20’s and I am very happy to have them still living at home while they save up for the future. I’m lucky we can afford to offer this to them, they don’t pay any rent with the intention they are saving this for their future. They both work full time.

Backstory is I was a single mum to them their whole childhood, just us 3 living together and when they became adults I met someone and we got married he’s a great supportive stepdad to my girls. He is also fine with the principal of them not paying rent as we are in a good position financially and times are tough out there.

The deal with no rent is they are expected to keep their own room clean and tidy and not make mess in the main house. The girls can eat any of the food in the house if they want to.

My oldest DD1 is neurodiverse (AuADHD) she makes no mess in the main house and she keeps her room fairly clean and tidy because ‘that was the deal’. She says she appreciates she has a very good deal and I don’t go into her room for any reason. She often buys her own food, she’s respectful and always asks politely to use the washing machine, things like that.

You can probably guess where this is going. My DD2 is the complete opposite and it’s causing arguments. I’ve tried giving her the benefit of the doubt but I think she is mostly just lazy.

Her room is awful and I am often having to go in there when she’s out to turn off all the lights/TV she leaves on (I’m paying the bills and these appliances get hot)

take the glasses and plates down (so many of them) and retrieve the 10 bath towels she has taken to use (and we have none clean left).

There is always a full up bin and rubbish/food all over the floor, and that’s if you can even get into the door from the 7 to 8 loads of laundry all over the place blocking the door.

She leaves her shoes all over the hallway, never loads the dishwasher after she cooks.

It’s all kicked off in a ridiculous way of DD2 yelling ‘respect my privacy’ (South Park style) when I’ve been in her room yet again to retrieve 12 glasses, 7 plates, 5 towels and turn the TV off.

I’m asking DD2 just to do these things herself, nothing more and we now have a standoff apparently where she says she doesn’t feel like her own person and I am helicopter parenting and she wants to install a lock! I’ve said absolutely no way she is having a lock on the door, the room is a fire hazard. She has even offered to pay rent just so I have ‘nothing to hold over her’.

I did explain I have better things to do in life than sort out another adults mess so if she could keep it tidy, I would have NO reason to go in there.

AIBU? I do go in her room even though she asks me not to! But I think I have good reason!

I don't go into my DC's rooms and haven't for many years.

We all have our own towels. Plates etc must be brought down. Lights, music and TV must be switched off.

If they can abide by general hygiene rules, I would leave them to it. I wouldn't allow locks on doors.

I am not worried about mess and laundry in their own space. They have to deal with the consequences of not having the outfit they want clean.

We put the washing machine on most days and hang washing to dry. We have a dryer but don't use it much. We don't have space to dry multiple loads of washing in one day.

All those saying leave her to it, that's all well and good except it's impacting everyone else when there are no glasses, clean towels etc left for them to use.

If she can't keep it clean and wants privacy to be a slob, she needs to move out.

She has 3 options:

1. tidy her room
2. let you go in there
3. move out

She may well have ADHD and so her room may not be spotless and her sheets may not be cleaned etc but that doesn’t stop her from bringing her plates down and empty the bins.

She needs to learn how to cope.

For now, how do you feel about her leaving her dishes outside of her room?
I did this with my DD. I said I want to give you privacy but I need the dishes and to just put them outside her door.
This worked and then after a few months I asked her to bring them down when she was coming to get more food.
I think seeing them as you go out the door reminded her to take them down.

We then did the same with the bin.
We have a laundry basket on the landing.

I think the people saying kick her out are massively over reacting.

My daughter is exactly the same, room like a tip, with towels/glasses/plates everywhere. It's frustrating, however it's not the end of the world.

I've started "room inspections" we joke she's the prisoner and I'm the warden coming to toss her cell. It's working pretty well so far, it's still messy but she does ask for bags so she can clear the rubbish out and take the hoover up there once a week and asks for bed sheets (the airing cupboard is iny bedroom)

I think your DD has to understand they even if she was paying a market rent in a flat somewhere, the Landlord has a right of entry especially if they feel their property is at risk - lack of hygiene etc puts the property at risk of mice and other vermin (as does a soiled mattress) so you have every legal and ethical right to enter her room if a glance from the doorway shows it is in a state and there are electrical appliances running in her absence. Additionally, the plates etc are not her property, so hoarding them - and thus withholding the use of them by the owners - is theft.

As I say above, I DO think she is ND. both my children have been through these phases and I have been very very clear that there is a risk to safety (clothing on floor as well as appliances running are a fire risk) and consequently to the maintaining the value and condition of my property (which if you have a mortgage I think your agreement with the lender states explicitly that you will endeavour maintain the upkeep, order and value of the asset to the best of your ability).

TBH it still required work. In the end I got a cleaner and the fact that a ‘stranger’ comes into their rooms each week seems to have been the catalyst - they are too embarrassed to have dirty laundry, poop stained loos in their ensuites etc. My DD also has a nastily period stained desk chair (again, another reason why I think your DD2 may be ND as stuff to do with personal hygiene/periods seems to be a challenge) and she scrubbed it as hard as she could with vanish and bought a new seat cover on amazon to hide it… she wouldn’t do it for me. A cleaner has changed our lives as I no longer argue and bitch at them all the time and their rooms are largely kept in a reasonable state now - I fund part of it out of DD’s PIP, so you could easily state you are getting a cleaner and DD2 has to pay in an increase in rent to cover it.

My daughter was like this when she lived at home. She bought her own place last year. The house is immaculate! Although I’m delighted for her, I have wondered exactly what the problem was with respecting our rules. I also considered ADHD but it evidently wasn’t.

Take her shopping, buy eight plates, bowls, glasses etc. just for her
Tell her these are the only ones she can use, they are hers, and her responsibility, and no one else is allowed to use them
Same with some towels
Tell her that you will not be going in to her room any more, if she needs her plates etc. and towels washed, she puts them in the sink/dishwasher and washing machine
Get a few timer plugs, that tick down from one hour, then cut off unless manually reset to solve the TV issue. I think you can get the same for light switches
Tell her that you're going to treat her as an independent adult, and see if that changes her behaviour

The thing is, for most ND people (those who can study and work not those who are so severely disabled that they need support with bodily functions etc) the aim is to teach them cognitively what others learn intuitively, and to teach them coping mechanisms. She clearly comes from a living home that has provided this teaching and shown flexibility. She’s taking the piss. People act to the limit of their consequences unless they are disciplined like your other daughter (which is unusual). She faced no consequences, so she continues to defy you. If necessary, write a contract and tell her you will serve notice if she breaks it.

How is her mental health? You say she rots in bed, doesn’t change her bedding, didn’t use to shower enough. These can be classic signs of depression. Have you broached this with her? Are you close to her?

The South Park remarks etc - do you say these things to her? It sounds like you and DH are ridiculing her, which probably isn’t great for her self esteem if it happens often.

Generally I don’t think you should be going into her room however it sounds like it really is unavoidable if she’s storing all the family plates/towels etc. If you want her to stay, perhaps she could have her ‘own’ towels & plates so that her hoarding doesn’t impact anyone else?

I think it’s time she left. I generally don’t think it’s great to have adult children living at home. IMO they should be learning to be independent.

I agree with you @Icantsaythis

For me it's been difficult and is exhausting. My DN has ADHD and has been kicked out by his mum. Dad equally useless and separated and has new family.
He has been with me for 6 months / he now showers, and makes his bed and does his laundry. It's not a linear improvement but up and down. Very recently, I think he is starting to see benefits of a bit of a structure for himself. Sleeping better in a clean bed, tidier room, having clean clothes, not smelling in the day.
its a mixture of pushing him, asking nicely, explaining why it's good and couple of times losing my temper.. tho not like his family used to.

yea it's tiring but it's also our jobs to bring up decent humans - and not future best friends - tho hopefully will be a bit of both

I moved out at 17 and owned a house at 19.

30 years on there are currently 5 cups/glasses on my bedside table, clean clothes on the floor, I don’t know where my hairbrush is and it’s been at least 2 weeks since my towel was washed.

I am a professional, highly qualified woman who is extremely intelligent and competent, but tidiness is not in my wheelhouse and I doubt it ever will be.

30 years on there are currently 5 cups/glasses on my bedside table, clean clothes on the floor, I don’t know where my hairbrush is and it’s been at least 2 weeks since my towel was washed.

That's surely ok if it doesn't impact anyone else?

If Op's daughter hordes towels/glasses/crockery etc so that there's nothing for other family members to use, what is the solution?

So your daughter is in her twenties and you have to do room inspections? Imo, it’s not over reacting to ask a slob to move out. I cut some slack as teens but adults who live with no expectation of making a financial contribution to the family, yet treat their home like a trash can need a proper wake up call.

My eldest DS, while only 17, is like this. Very very messy. He has recently been diagnosed with ASD and I reckon he also has ADHD like his dad. His room looks like it has been burgled. DP wants to march in there and lift everything and tidy up, whereas I am more inclined to give him his space. The agreement currently is that he can live in chaos, but the bare minimum I want is glasses/cups etc brought down regularly before they turn into science experiments and he has to remove his dirty laundry from the room (this system is sketchy at best!) He does sleep in his bedding a bit longer than I would like, but is starting to change it more often, which is something. He still has piles of GCSE work lying everywhere, even though he's at college now. There are also loads of empty crisp bags and chocolate wrappers ... surrounding his completely empty wastepaper bin! I have found that if we argue, it makes absolutely no difference to his behaviour and we are all just very stressed. So, for my sanity, I have backed off. I'm not a tidy person either, so perhaps I have more sympathy for him. He appeared a couple of days ago with bags of rubbish and recycling and laundry as he had suddenly done a massive clear out. He does things like this in frantic bursts (as do I!) He can't stand anyone touching his stuff and, again, I'm exactly the same. If DP starts tidying up my things, I have a very visceral reaction. I know it's awful for tidy people, but I genuinely can't help how I am. I do my absolute best to keep on top of things, but it is a daily mental struggle and I do get overwhelmed. I suspect I am neurodivergent myself.

Op, have you asked her what she thinks the solution is when there is so much in her room that it needs fetching as there's nothing for others to use?

Her options are:
Live in your home as a child with no privacy
Follow the house rules and have some privacy
Move out and live independently and live however she wants

It's different to you, but maybe not so different to her. Age notwithstanding she is stuck in "child" mode. That's not fair etc.

We have a very overtly ND teen who keeps stuff tidy and one very late diagnosed whose mess defies belief. Beware of holding them up against each other to compare. Shaming the messy one doesn't help. Are you absolutely sure that underneath it all she isn't secretly ashamed of it, and/or struggling with some mental health issues? If she is angry and defensive often that comes from hidden embarrassment, in which case getting angry entrenches the resistance and paralysis.

I would suggest a bolt on the door is reasonable but not a key lock, rent paying or not. If she wants absolute privacy she needs to pay for her own front door (and even then, some landlords do inspections)

Sit her down, talk about how respect goes both ways and you want to live in a home with mutual adult-adult respect, but that requires a certain level of hygiene. What does she think will help? Consider getting a skip/replacing carpets with hard floor etc. Figure out what's missing - skills, motivation or both. And by skills that includes the whole activation part of it which a lot of ND people find hard. I know this sounds lily-livered compared with just reading her the riot act. I just know getting cross causes paralysis and lots of crying here.

My 19 year old is better at uni than at home. I think it's because she has less stuff. We find ADHD tips quite good - storage needs to be open, clear boxes, allow an allocated dumping spot etc.

The ultimate solution might be finding a partner she wants to bring home. And you can't do that bit for her.

There's a book, Dirty Laundry, by Roxanne and Richard Pink, that explains the crippling shame and impact on relationships with the people close to you, caused by difficulties managing personal hygiene, laundry, clutter that are very often seen in people with ADHD. Often perceived by others and internalised by ourselves, as laziness or selfishness. And how to overcome the guilt and do better. Typically, I bought it and read the first quarter. Made me feel better.

I've got neater over the years, I was a messy bedroom teen, it caused years of strife with my mum until I moved out at 22 (in the 90s when it was affordable). My DD15, her room's a disaster zone. She's up there tidying it for Christmas as we speak! House is a mixture of presentable enough for company, corners with little piles of clutter - and her tip of a room.

DS has a diagnosis, DD is on the waiting list. As time goes by and we learn more, we realise who in the family has always had it. And why I for instance, was never taught to tidy, other than after traumatic shouting matches, which associated tidying forever with stress. I now try to avoid repeating history with the shouting, though it is hard, when you see a room of your home trashed.

Also, it is really common for people who are neat freaks, great at organising, to find a soulmate in someone who is not great at organising. They marry, have children, chaos ensues. I am the messy one. But I am also the one who spearheads the massive decluttering operations, to make the house look good again.

It's a constant arms race, the sporadic tidying, versus the forces of chaos and apathy, the weeks when none of us can be bothered and just focus on surviving school, work and relaxing in the few precious hours of leisure time left over. Over time, we have learned to accept this about ourselves.

I obviously don’t take the piss out of her to her face I am just internally thinking wtf DD

My AuADHD Older DD was a bloody nightmare sometimes but she appreciates a transactional relationship. Free rent = don’t take the piss out of mum.

DD2 has been depressed in the past and it manifests this way. I am inclined to think it’s more about a MH self neglect than ADHD. She has no motivation to do these things for herself, let alone me.

@Settingstory YANBU! You have set boundaries and she has repeatedly crossed them.

Have you tried putting the rules in writing?

Or what about planting some fake rat droppings in her room to make it look like her filth has caused an infestation???

Treat her like the adult she is. Tell her to shape up or move out.

Tell her to hire a cleaner for an hour once a week if she can't handle it but ultimately if you have 1 child who's neuro diverse she's probably on the opposite side of the spectrum

No I didn't say she was in her 20s.

I don't see the issue with doing a room inspection if it gets you the result you want.

The fact you've referred to her as a slob and not her daughter says it all.

Parents who kick their kids out, never have a great relationship going forward. There are very little reasonable reasons to do it imo.

I think it sounds both like you are expecting too much and also she's not doing enough. I don't think you should have made tidiness in their bedrooms a requirements for living with you rent free but I do think that tidiness and respect for communal space is an absolute necessity. Even if you were charging her rent, it doesn't mean "you have nothing to hold over her" because it's just basic decency to respect communal spaces.

Maybe give her her own plates and cups because she can't be trusted to bring the communal ones down, although I imagine she'll just use the communal ones anyway seeing as she has shown such disregard for other rules of the house.

Messiness is up to her, but things which impact the rest of the household are not-negotiable. She needs to bring the cutlery/crockery out on a regular basis, only use specific towels, and learn to tidy up after herself in the kitchen. If she can’t do those things, the consequence is that you will do them for her (go into her room) or she loses the privilege (of cooking for herself). Her choice.

If she isn’t willing to make any compromises for the sake of others, then she needs to find other accommodation. The rest of you are no longer willing to live like this.