DH doesn’t engage with Xmas or us..

[Stbernadettesteacher]

Around 6 weeks ago I started a watsapp group with DH with links & Xmas present ideas. It’s our DC birthday around Xmas too.

I work 12 hours a day in a school, DH works 9-3:30 in an office (and is paid more than me!)
Throughout Nov and Dec, I have continuously bought and wrapped presents for friends family and our children’s teachers as well as:

•Organised xmas lead up activities for DC like theatre/ visiting friends
•Bought & wrapped gifts for everyone
•organised hosting his parents and meet ups
•De-cluttering the house and cleaning to make said hosting easier
•bought and cooked food when hosting
•bought and put up Xmas tree
•bought and posted Xmas cards
•bought a bunch of thank you cards and started a thank you list
•booked DC birthday party, made an invitation and sent out invites
•bought all of DCs stocking and gifts for bday and Xmas
•Sent parcels abroad and to friends
•Kept on top of laundry, housework
•cleaned out and made fires
•bought fire making stuff
•hoovered
•mopped

DH is very hard to engage with any of this So, despite me working longer hours in and out of the house, I’m finding it hard not to resent him.

Last Thursday my school broke up 1 day before my DC school so having done all my wrapping etc I decided to have a whole day to myself to get my hair and nails done and buy myself some presents! DH was constantly texting me asking if he needed to buy a few of the things I’d sent him links to over the past month. My dad was messaging asking for peoples addresses even though I’ve sent them to him year after year - even buying him an address book with everyone’s addresses in one year, my sister who lives abroad and who has cut our dad off, was asking me to tell our dad that if he didn’t like the boots she’d sent him, he could sell them.

DH’s messages really irritated me. The reason I had been so organised with buying and wrapping because I wanted the Xmas break to just be seeing loved ones and letting my hair down, not dealing with panicked disorganised men’s urgent to do lists as-well. What annoyed me most is that DH had asked to use my Amazon Prime the night before in order to buy the things in the links he was asking me about the next day. When I told him this he just went all teenage and said he forgot, implying I was being a bitch.

NO!

Yesterday, I cooked a huge roast for visiting family and while I was doing so, I asked DH if he could move the jigsaw puzzle from the living room so that the visiting baby wouldn’t trash it. He said “I might, I might not”. I was so annoyed. I was there having done everything and I asked him for 1 tiny bit of help and he was being obstructive on purpose. I tried to explain the above and said I wanted him to imagine what it’s like and to empathise with why I never have a happy Christmas and he just said “I’m damned if I do I’m damned if I don’t” and went into a kind of victim mode.

He has been decidedly less affectionate in the past few months and I’ve felt lonely.

We have a fortnightly relationship therapist but I’m sick of him not doing any of the homework she sets and just loafing around.

In one of our sessions I told him his lack of personal hygiene upsets me and interferes with our intimacy. If someone told me this, I’d be mortified and immediately want to correct my ways but he hasn’t cared at all.
I’ve said again and again how I need date nights and to spend time in adult spaces to feel in touch with my sexuality but unless I organise and generally pay for this, it generally doesn’t happen.

I know I’m not perfect, I have ADHD, I struggle at times with my mood, I talk too much, I’m messy, but I do take HRT and adhd medication, I take care of my appearance, I try to make our home and our social life lovely, I pursue hobbies, I love my job, I see friends so the pressure isnt on DH to be my everything. He is very good with our DC, does all of the wrap-around school care, cooks most school nights, food shops and can be a lovely partner. It just feels like we’ve lost our way as a couple.

The worst of it is that I feel he doesn’t desire me. I feel anxious as he doesn’t give me any positive feedback about my character. In the silence my mind fears he doesn’t like me, he’s put off by me. I already feel my looks are waning and have considered Botox.

Just a brain dump. Not sure what I’m trying to achieve here.

Thanks for reading.

And sometimes communication is 'im not doing x, y and z. It's not my fucking problem. If it's not done, it's tough.' precisely because you've made a rod for your own back by doing it and it therefore ending up taken for granted.

I’m the opposite of a micromanager. I made it clear that the links to gifts were a brainstorm and to be discussed. We both buy for our own families- always have and some of the ideas I sent were for his family so implicitly his job to buy or look into getting them something different, I was helping and promoting him.

This week should be a time to enjoy friends and rest but it’s now characterised by DH’s lack of presence as he panic buys gifts and abandons DC and I to sort himself out so I end up with more work and less family time relaxing. He is selfish. He says Hes trying his best and wants to be helpful yet spends most of his time taking naps or scrolling.

This forum is truly mental.
I am clearly just working my butt off to make Xmas as lovely as possible for my family and somehow DH’s laziness and lack of willingness to be a grown up sharing the load with me is my fault. No wonder women can’t win. Even other women are misogynists.

So your solution is to not send my sister Christmas presents. I’m sure that will help my DH’s Peter Pan syndrome.

Sounds like he might have ADHD too? Re Christmas- I think you need to step back and think about what you are doing and why. It sounds like your life is very much full of stress, but it's up to you how to manage that. Maybe just giving him a list of jobs that he must take responsibility for - and for you to accept if he doesn't complete them. Then look at what you are doing and what maybe you could cut out. I understand the need to feel in charge and make everything as perfect as possible, but you are loading that expectation onto yourself. No one else is as bothered as you are, especially your DH.

Also despite what pp have said, it seems he does a lot of the childcare and that is taking a load off you. So he has his positive qualities.

I'm not saying you aren't justified in your criticisms of him, but OTOH, you have to acceot (or not) who people actually are and what they consider important. It doesn't even sound like he values the counselling, though the fact he is participating shows a willingness many partners might not have.

Overall I felt stressed out reading your post. Consider how he might be feeling.

Sounds stressful, OP.But I felt overwhelmed just reading ypour to do list.
Not sure what the lead up to Christmas events mean, tbh, but it sounds like when your husband decided to liaise about presents you resented him doing it on your day off (which is understandable he did it then as he assumed you would have the time to reply?)
I think you need to decide if village christmas cards, managing his family etc are really necessary.I would stick up a list, divided in 2, and add one job at a time to equalise things.If/when the list gets overwhelming, you both need to decide what to drop.If you decide you don't want to lose any of the many tasks, but he does,I suppose you have to decide whether to keep them and do them yourself.

No. You said your sister was asking you to relay a message to your dad. You can refuse to do that. You’re not her PA. And if she’s cut your dad off, why is she still sending him Christmas presents?! Also… not sure what your sister has got to do with your husband…

I have a friend with ADHD who comes up with a zillion ideas like this and spams by WhatsApp. It's hard work and overwhelming.

She's trying to engage and get others involved rather than making decisions. Its unhelpful and having the opposite effect.

There's a group of about six of us, for whom it's got too much. We have now all switched off from it and ignore it. Like I say it's noise rather than anything meaningful because it's constant and we are doing something else.

A couple have admitted to just muting the chat or actively ignoring. Another just left the group.

It's not a format that really works.

You having ideas and shoving them on WhatsApp is a handy note system - for you. It suits you and your brain but that doesn't necessarily work for anyone else. That's the point I'm trying to make here. He won't engage with that because of the format and it's a system that is just effecting your random brain splurge.

Personally I can't stand it when others do it to me however I'm also guilty of occasionally doing it myself to DH but I do realise it just doesn't connect with him - it actually makes him grumpy. We've had a conversation about it though and I get his POV. He is definitely interprets noise like this as me being in control of the situation and this 'no action required ' response. It's not laziness - it's just him responding to cues about what is his priority and what's not.

He has made his own note of gifts elsewhere in a format that works for him.

As a result I find it much more productive to take photos when I see something and then refine my own thoughts into something coherent in a single block rather than separate individual thoughts and discuss properly (we both know we have a responsibility to do this) rather WhatsApp spam.

DS is diagnosed as ADHD and I'm highly likely to be ADHD myself so I do get this.

It's a communication issue primarily. Yes there maybe some laziness involved, but it's about miscommunication. The fact it isn't just restricted to the presents is your big clue.

You need to both work out what the other is really saying rather than just talking AT someone. (The trouble with WhatsApp Thought Spamming is precisely this - you are talking AT someone not WITH someone but you think you are having a conversation. You aren't).

How do you stand being married to him? What is his redeeming feature?
Id honestly leave.
Poor hygiene, lazy, no empathy, uncaring. No chance.

I cant read all the comments (although I agreed with everything I skim read). Absolute lazy idiot. The comment about ‘might do, might not’ is just plain pathetic (i’d be annoyed with a 4 year old saying that).

He sounds utterly draining. You can clearly handle so much and I suggest you take a long hard look at what enjoyment he actually brings to your life. If you’re staying with him not to break up the family, the kids will see how he treats you and think it’s ok for Mum to be run off her feet and Dad not pull his weight.

Never mind if he ‘desires’ you - I cant imagine‘desiring’ anything about him 🥴

I’ve discovered that Chat_GPT makes a great husband. I often ask it how to do things, ask for suggestions or sense check my thinking.

It is helpful, kind and encouraging.

I’ve told DH that he is in danger of actually having any point at all.

In all seriousness though, from what you’ve said he sounds like he just can’t be arsed with any of it. What does he actually bring to your life?

This.

No one is being misogynistic. Everyone is telling you to do less. Step back. Disengage. If it all goes to shit that’s not your fault. Worry about you and the kids and that’s it.

I felt the same.

And I actually have a full on list of 'christmas jobs' to do! I start getting presents in August and just get on with it. But I fully appreciate a lot of it is is stuff I think is important and want to do. Not something that HAS to be done. There's a massive difference.

You have to be honest with yourself over what you NEED to do, what you WANT to do, what isn't a disaster if it doesn't happen but would be nice if it did and what's NOT YOUR FUCKING problem.

It removes a lot of the stress. Both that I feel and DH feels I push onto him.

I'm in a happy place with Christmas as a result of working this out - but it's not just Christmas it's life generally and I think it's very easy to get wrapped up into a whirlwind of of 'I've got to get ALL this done' when others around you just don't do that and are a lot more chilled about it.

I can struggle with the 'Ticking Clock' issue where a deadline looks and I start to panic and then get grouchy because others aren't on the same page - often cos it's all in my head.

A written list helps because then others can actively help too. If it's all in my head they can't see it , they can't help me and they can't get me to calm the fuck down when I need to and reassure me that X doesn't matter and if it doesn't happen it's not a problem.

I'm sensing a degree of 'ADHD perfectionism' here rather than learning to relax and enjoy and that lots of things genuinely don't matter.

If he's in the 'this doesn't matter camp' for some things, this isn't laziness either. Maybe it just doesn't matter.

95% agree you are not being unreasonable.

Clearly some women like to be treated like a doormat or are making excuses for their own Husband’s.

I would say my DH works the hardest in my friendship group (number of hours/stress level of his job) and when he’s off, he takes charge of cooking, helps clean (I do majority as work part-time), does the garden, does childcare as a team with me, does all the decorating/DIY, cleans the cars) and between us we’ve bought the presents. He wrapped his own family presents, I wrapped mine and the kids (as have more time at home).

I wrote the cards, he went to post office to get stamps and delivered them round our area with our kids.

Everything is team work and your DH is not a team player. If you want to stick with him, next Xmas tell him you’re making a list of things to do before Xmas and sit down and divide them up between you. Grown adults are able to have 15 minutes to chat about Christmas. Christmas takes work and planning and he needs to pull his weight. If his family dont have gifts (that job should be on his side of the list), he will have to face the consequences of that.

You can only do so much before you break and i’d think about the example you want your children to see.

From my point of view, you seem very full on.

I wouldn't enjoy that either. (Asperger's, child free, long term married).
I like my peace and quiet, because everything is temporary.
On the other hand, your husband has chosen to have a family.
It's a difficult one, your dynamic of life just doesn't seem to make him happy.

It’s good that you are getting counselling.
You don’t talk about your husband like he is a person with an inner life. It’s like you see him as a failed accessory to your life and how you want to lead it (and thus how you want him to behave).

All the hosting - is that your choice not his?. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it but maybe don’t have compatible tastes on how much you want to host - Do you think that could be part of it?

You are flogging a dead horse with this man. 💐

You've been hyperfocusing on Christmas for weeks/months.

He hasn't.

Your hyperfocus is not his responsibility and it's often far safer to pull back and let somebody get on with it because they're the one chasing the dopamine. I do it when DP is focused on something, he does it when I am - if somebody else takes over a task, you don't get the dopamine from it (and getting angry is a normal ADHD reaction to not getting the hit or a weaker one from them having completed it or distracting you by asking a question about the task), but having somebody in full blown hyperfocus can be quite overwhelming to both NT and those who don't completely mirror the presentation of ND.

Irritating, too - I know that 'I might or I might not' is something that crosses my mind when somebody at work is talking at me at a million miles a minute; it may not be relevant that I recognise they're displaying exactly the same behaviours that I can, the actual experience of being on the receiving end of hyperfocus is different to having it.

Hmm. Some NY resolutions I would do in your place.
Some individual counselling as to why I put up with this shit.
Consider what the joint counselling is adding, and if nothing because he isn’t engaging, you have a bigger question to consider.
Just do less. To some extent you have created a rod for your own back here op. Your hyperfocus on lists of numerous tasks that Must Be Done, is not his list.
Really think about how you want next Christmas to be, and if you want it to be different to this one, what are you going to do (remembering you can’t change him only yourself. It will be the same until the end of time if you don’t change how you behave and what you will put up with, because he isn’t going to.)

He's checked out of your relationship and isn't engaging in family life anymore. Divorce lawyers can be busy in January so book your appointment early

Various thoughts on all the different issues in your thread:

1. You bought and sent all the Christmas cards. One of the many, many things you've done, which contributes to your overwhelm. Does DH care about sending cards? He doesn't have to. I know I can take on too many things, get tired and resentful doing them but I have to recognise a lot of the tiring shit of my life is self-imposed and my OH absolutely has the right to his own decisions about how he spends his time. So if it's only you that cares about cards, just as an example, you accept it will all be on you. Same with thankyou cards. Your DH doesn't have to think they're necessary, or he might think texting is enough. Have you asked him? You seem to be a labour-intensive perfectionist. Handwritten thankyous are a lovely idea, when you've got a lot of time....which you haven't!
2. If he's a good cook, why did you do the recent roast? Could that not have been given to him? And the key question..if he had done the cooking and chosen to just do spaghetti bolognese, could you have relinquished control and let him?
3. You need to be a tigress about protecting your limited, precious me-time. You know what the men in your life are like. Tell them you are switching your phone off/not taking it out with you, and then do it. There is definitely a degree of weaponised incompetence with your DH and your father. Don't pander to it. You are entitled to get your nails done etc in peace.
4. If your dad and sister are no contact, they're no contact. You don't act as go-between. You need clearer boundaries here.
5. I'm genuinely intrigued as to what questions your husband could have asked prior to going out with the kids to deliver parcels and cards in the village. It sounds pretty straightforward to me.

Hello 👋 fellow adhd mum here.
I don’t have any specific solutions but some suggestions.
Next year 1. Reduce the gifts for friends. Agree this in advance. Instead have lunch together and swap fun memories of the year. 2. stop buying gifts for teachers unless it is a generic version eg 5 small and identical boxes of chocolates and put a sticky bow in them so they don’t require wrapping.
If you host you get his buy in and divide up the jobs. Let him choose first.
Assume he is competent. And let him do it. Say nothing if it doesn’t happen, or doesn’t go well. It’s no longer on your plate.
Stop sending parcels abroad. Use Amazon or local websites.
If you are out enjoying yourself tel DH phone will be on flight mode for the duration. Assume competence.
Tell you Dad he has an address book. It’s not your responsibility. Ditto to sister.
My adhd makes me want to please and to ‘manage everything’ life has got infinitely better when I don’t do it as much or catch myself doing it.
Assuming DH is competent - even though he will do it differently from me has helped me to let go. And if it doesn’t happen well it’s ok. He can deal with it.
Men don’t think like women. But if they are assumed to be competent then are more reliable. It’s your responsibility to have a happy Christmas. Often doing less helots with that. When women feel criticized they often correct. Men just feel pissed off and resentful a dig their heels in.