Just been told to remove my pronouns from my Teams profile

[Horrace]

I'm weak 🤣
My manager just phoned me to say there has been some serious complaints made about me that he must urgently address.
I panicked.
In the Pronouns section of my Teams profile, I have

'Take a Wild Guess'

Its been there for a few years. Its finally been noticed and I've been told to take it down because it's made someone or more than one possibly, FEARFUL of me.

People don't think you are born a man because of a zillion physiological cues. So after you met him in person, you still had no idea at all that he was born male? He reversed all those cues? He must have done something.

You said he was "presenting as a woman". What does that mean?

Yes I sit next to her at work and I would not be able to tell that she was born a man had I not been told. Many of our colleagues do not know either. Her voice is fully female like mine. I don’t know anymore details I’m afraid, but to me this person is a woman.

I would never be rude at work about about other people's religion or lack of religion but if my workplace asked me to state my own religion on my Teams profile then I would be very tempted to take the piss. I might make something up which is not a religion, and does not take the piss out of anyone else's religion, but which does takes the piss out of the expectation that employees should announce their religious beliefs (or lack of same).

Which is what (I think) the OP did.

Yes, this exactly. Thanks

That's very interesting, because yesterday you called this person "he" and "their".

Ok. So the answer to "what do you mean by presenting as a woman" has gone from "I think you know" to "Really?" to "female name" to "just thought he was a woman".

That's interesting language to use, too, in the circumstances; I'd never say "presenting as a woman" about someone who I actually thought was a woman. It's like saying a dog presents as a dog, and not being able to say what you mean by that.

Still, of course you're allowed to have this person be a woman "to you". He still objectively is not.

We mark major religious celebrations in our workplace - as well as Christmas and Easter, we will normally have some recognition of e.g. Eid, Hanukkah. If an atheist member of staff started making comments about “sky pixies” in response then you can bet HR would have something to say about it!

This isn’t quite the same though - mostly the celebrations will be “on the side” - an email , an opportunity to share some time over cakes or something that isn’t forced upon anyone

it’s more like celebrating Christmas at work - insisting that everyone takes a glass of sherry and raises a toast to Jesus - forced participation

still think op should have left it blank

This is why people use Jedi!

Oh, so the only thing that made them "present as a woman" was having a female name?

So, women can't be called James?

Trouble is - this particular belief system (which is not quite a religion) includes the belief that everyone should be asked to announce their pronouns to other people at work, even if they are not forced to respond. So to take the piss out of the request-to-announce is to take the piss out of the belief system itself.

What does a female dress like?

What does a female look like?

So what? We're allowed to take the piss if we like.

So, people are offended...so what? Let them be offend...

If they're allowed to be offended by me saying "alligator/crocodile" the. I can be offended by them saying "they/them"

And we're both offended...

So what?

I wish people would be more respectful to OP.

He clearly has a point and no one should have to present their pronouns if they don’t want to.

So what? We're allowed to take the piss if we like.

I hope so. I'm just thinking through why people would be so fearful of something so petty.

didn't you just assume their gender?

Literal Violence.

Apparently wearing a skirt and having a female name.
Sorry Alex with the shirt hair and trousers, who is most definitely a woman..... You're not presenting as a woman I'm afraid...

Back to the clownfish...

But OP was never forced to include her pronouns, she had the option to do so and rather than leave it blank (which I agree she should have done if she objected to the whole idea), she's written something which she admits is deliberately designed to mock the whole thing.

So it's like instead of just not participating in the cakes or whatever she turned up and said "god is a lie!".

And I think the comparison with religion isn't perfect, as using pronouns is a day-to-day part of our language and communication, and is relevant (as I've given numerous examples of through this thread) way beyond trans-inclusion. So it's not something that's peripheral to work, it's an everyday part of workplace communication.

@Cybiil can't possibly answer the question what does "presenting as a woman" means, and she knows it, because she would be reducing women to their stereotypes.

Men pretending to be women wear skirts, have long hair, might even wear fake boobs or high heels, might have make it on and nails polished etc....They "present" as their idea of what a woman should look like, but as @Cybiil knows, that's just bullshit. We all know women don't all wear heels and makeup, just like they don't all have female names.

The person at her work "presents" a stereotype. But she can't say that.... Because it makes the whole thing unravel...

Which is equally childish and belittling of other people's beliefs.

The other thing is that the list of 'official' pronouns is so ridiculous, how are you even supposed to tell what's taking the piss and what isn't?

Get a load of this

https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Neopronouns#List_of_Neopronouns

OP, if you're looking for alternatives, what about Hu/Hum/Hus/Huself?

You see the problem with your post is that many of us have been called sir or been “misgendered” as the youngsters call it and we either don’t care or find it amusing! 🤷‍♀️

The thing is, for people not trying to pass themselves off as the opposite sex, 'misgendering' them causes zero pain. They know what sex they are. The joke's on you.

Op you are brilliant.
fearful, ughhh. That language.

... so what?

They're offended... So fucking what??

If you get upset because I believe in Jedi religion...then what....you're upset? Are you belittling my beliefs saying I'm wrong? That's not okay, according to you.... We're only allowed to believe in some sort of pre-approved list of deities and religions?

Aren't we allowed our own beliefs anymore? You can't tell me my religion only exists to mock others... Because you're otherwise, telling me I'm wrong to believe in Jedi.... I'm not allowed to tell you you're wrong for believing in Allah, so don't tell me my religious beliefs are wrong...

But announcing one's pronouns is not. Though it does serve a practical purpose in a multicultural workplace where I can't figure out someone's sex (never mind their gender identity) from their name or from other context and where knowing the right pronoun is sometimes be useful. But I'd still rather be able to look the information up when I need it than have it helpfully sploshed all over people's communications and other auto-generated screens, necessary or not, which is how things are in my workplace.