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Thread 21 : To feel disappointed - and now disgusted too - after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

DisappointedReader · 16/12/2025 16:15

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 20 IS FULL

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5422393-thread-18-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5437058-thread-19-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5454438-thread-20-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders and ploppers who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. Over 5 months we have done amazingly well together for 20 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Keep to the path. No saltiness. Our Cardboard Mascot Our Simon has had his head stuck back on and is wearing a very fetching tinsel boa. The charabanc is bedecked with fairy lights and very well stocked up. May the seasonal fudge and mulled cider be with you one and all. 🎅🌲🎁❄️🎄

These threads are the gifts that keep on giving:
New:

Up and coming:

  • Observer Newsroom: The Real Salt Path Story, Thursday 8th January 2026 6.30-7.30pm. More information and to book via this link observer.co.uk/our-events/the-real-salt-path-story
  • Podcast series from The Observer's award-winning Investigative Journalist Chloe Hadjimatheou
  • BBC Documentary (NB Not involving Our Chloe)
*MNHQ correcting above 'Documentary' to 'Podcast' at request of author

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 20 IS FULL

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 08:08

Thelandsthatmustnotbementioned · 17/12/2025 08:04

I’ve been mulling on the question raised about Moth’s clothes and whether they are relevant. I think they add to the picture we have of him craving attention and admiration. Look at me! Look at me in my hand made cream wedding suit when most boys my age would go to Moss Bros and hire something! Look at me wearing a necktie half way up a mountain! Look at me planking on the trig point! Look at me being an ambassador for charity! Look at me striking poses on the path! Look at my trendy spiky hair!
This fits with what the relatives said in the documentary about him often saying he was ill. Feigning illness is a classic way of attention-seeking.
Moth would rather be the flame that others are drawn to, than a lowly moth.
All of this makes me suspect he has a significant role in the whole thing - whether actively as the puppeteer or more indirectly - SalRay doing whatever is needed to please her man-with-a taste-for-the-good(expensive)-things-in-life.

There is no doubt he is very narcissistic. You just have to look at the images of him on Sal's IG feed. Also Ros Hemmings' comments in the doc that he always wore a cravat while working as a gardener at Plas-yn-Rhiw. That is taking sartorial elegance to the next level!

HouseWithASeaView · 17/12/2025 08:22

Just coming in to say “hi” having been actively involved in threads 1 - 10ish (under a different name), had thought this had fallen away only to spot thread 20 in active convos, take a look and realise that there were many more twists & turns.
I still don’t know whether incredulity or anger is my more dominant emotion! It continues to be extraordinary and no doubt there will be more to come with this extra round of publicity. I imagine there will be others who have been scammed by them and who have been too ashamed to come forward but, if they have seen others in a similar position on the documentary, may now do something.
I thought the documentary was excellent. I wasn’t aware of CH before the article in July and think she is really impressive. I would also be intrigued to know how her life works with a job as varied as this. The idea that you work plan for the year might include a trip to Syria but instead you go down this rabbit hole.
i was stuck on severely delayed flight the other day so thought I’d give the film a go. After all, the scenery would be good and some of it would probably be familiar as I used to live in that part of the world. I turned it off as soon as SalRay (well, Gillian Andersen) uttered her first sentence. I just couldn’t bear to watch it.

Mauvish1 · 17/12/2025 08:22

Maybe a BBC docu will have a slightly different focus. The recent radio programme about the fake Scottish tea grower didn't so much tell the story, as look at how he was able to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, and questioned whose job it was to do due diligence. Maybe they'd do similar with the WWs.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 17/12/2025 08:27

I wonder if getting more book bloggers on board would help? I'm afraid all the ones I know are chiefly active in fiction, but book bloggers do have great reach and quite a lot of influence with the buying public.

I'm still slightly concerned that PRH are just going to hold the line until this all blows over. That TSP and sequels are going to keep selling - although sales will naturally steady down after the initial flush of enthusiasm, but all this time that we're discussing the sheer audacity and the range of lies, Sal and Tim are continuing to profit from fraud. Which I think is absolutely disgraceful and there just must be some way of clamping down on this.

Uricon2 · 17/12/2025 08:42

Hwaet! Avengers Assemble!

I'm down a headwrap rabbit hole currently as hair loss continues apace, the felt cloche I hoped would make me look a bit like Lady Mary from Downton actually creating more of a resemblance to Paddington Bear.

Perhaps Timoth could foray into the world of publishing next? '101 Natty Ways with a Bandana' (I'd still be looking for the lies, exaggerations, etc, etc)

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 08:48

Uricon2 · 17/12/2025 08:42

Hwaet! Avengers Assemble!

I'm down a headwrap rabbit hole currently as hair loss continues apace, the felt cloche I hoped would make me look a bit like Lady Mary from Downton actually creating more of a resemblance to Paddington Bear.

Perhaps Timoth could foray into the world of publishing next? '101 Natty Ways with a Bandana' (I'd still be looking for the lies, exaggerations, etc, etc)

Very sorry to hear about your ongoing hair issues. That must be terrible. It's possibly a bit of a sensitive subject but does Moth use hair gel or is his hair naturally like that? It sometimes looks like he's been plugged into an electric socket!

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 08:51

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 08:48

Very sorry to hear about your ongoing hair issues. That must be terrible. It's possibly a bit of a sensitive subject but does Moth use hair gel or is his hair naturally like that? It sometimes looks like he's been plugged into an electric socket!

Edited

PS - unwittingly my handle sems to have changed from Naughty Noodler to Simon Armpit!

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 17/12/2025 09:00

Uricon2 · 17/12/2025 08:42

Hwaet! Avengers Assemble!

I'm down a headwrap rabbit hole currently as hair loss continues apace, the felt cloche I hoped would make me look a bit like Lady Mary from Downton actually creating more of a resemblance to Paddington Bear.

Perhaps Timoth could foray into the world of publishing next? '101 Natty Ways with a Bandana' (I'd still be looking for the lies, exaggerations, etc, etc)

Sorry to hear about your hair issues. I hope the rest of your recovery is continuing..,

And I can just see Tim's bandana book containing chapters like 'Chapter 2 How to Build a Working Space Vehicle with Your Bandana' 'Chapter 4 How to Use Your Bandana To Make a Comfortable Tent'.

I'd be glad to see (hear) a BBC Podcast, even if it covers old ground. The more exposure this whole thing gets, the more chance there is that the buying public will stop, well, buying.

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 09:23

Some very interesting comments on her Salt Path article on Ruth Saberton's FB page. Some who agree and others who claim,TSP is Sal's truth and thus nobody can or should question it. Mind boggling.

(1) Facebook

Ruth Saberton - Author

Ruth Saberton - Author. 6,210 likes · 1,071 talking about this. Hello to anyone discovering my page for the first time. I’m Ruth & I write fiction full of atmosphere, emotion and mystery. You can...

https://www.facebook.com/ruthsabertonauthor

SimoArmo · 17/12/2025 09:26

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 08:51

PS - unwittingly my handle sems to have changed from Naughty Noodler to Simon Armpit!

You're trying to confuse things aren't you?

BemusingBrandy · 17/12/2025 09:29

Thelandsthatmustnotbementioned · 17/12/2025 08:04

I’ve been mulling on the question raised about Moth’s clothes and whether they are relevant. I think they add to the picture we have of him craving attention and admiration. Look at me! Look at me in my hand made cream wedding suit when most boys my age would go to Moss Bros and hire something! Look at me wearing a necktie half way up a mountain! Look at me planking on the trig point! Look at me being an ambassador for charity! Look at me striking poses on the path! Look at my trendy spiky hair!
This fits with what the relatives said in the documentary about him often saying he was ill. Feigning illness is a classic way of attention-seeking.
Moth would rather be the flame that others are drawn to, than a lowly moth.
All of this makes me suspect he has a significant role in the whole thing - whether actively as the puppeteer or more indirectly - SalRay doing whatever is needed to please her man-with-a taste-for-the-good(expensive)-things-in-life.

Yes, I think it is interesting in the context of how does the dynamic work with this gruesome twosome.

I think the sartorial elegance of the young Tim shows that it is genuinely him. Wearing the cravat throughout his time working in the garden. The camera loves him whether he is on the coast path or at a film premiere.

I don't feel we need to share this again but the death notice of his father showed that he too had a jaunty scarf and a lovely smile. So it all points to that always being Tim.

I had a friend who always wore a striking headband. Sometimes, when in conversation, he would go into a 'trance' which was quite unnerving (what were you meant to do meanwhile?). When he 'came round' he gave a broad smile and carried on as if everything was normal. He would also have 'insights' about people.

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 09:30

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 09:23

Some very interesting comments on her Salt Path article on Ruth Saberton's FB page. Some who agree and others who claim,TSP is Sal's truth and thus nobody can or should question it. Mind boggling.

(1) Facebook

Edited

Jacquie Gammon...

Thread 21 : To feel disappointed - and now disgusted too - after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?
SimoArmo · 17/12/2025 09:37

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 09:30

Jacquie Gammon...

Edited

Jacqui Gammon lacks any sort of ability for critical thinking if she considers that made up guff in 3 books can be passed off as someone's "truth".

BemusingBrandy · 17/12/2025 09:48

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 09:30

Jacquie Gammon...

Edited

I think it is worth reposting @cricketandwhodunnits earlier contribution:

I have been writing about bullshit lately (it is a philosophical term), & idly wondering whether TSP counts as bullshit. I think not, because bullshit is "saying stuff that sounds good without caring whether it's true or not" and I think TSP (etc) is mostly deliberate lies to cover up the facts. But it gets into bullshit territory once SW starts speculating about the curative power of nature. And the current high ambient levels of bullshit may explain why people are willing to accept the books despite them being untrue.

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 10:05

Without wanting to go down a massive rabbit hole, there are a small number of philosophers (Soren Kierkegaard being the most well known) who subscribe to the concept that there is no such thing as objective truth and that all truth is essentially subjective. I don't happen to agree with them but it is (an albeit minority) philosophical viewpoint.

Whether Sal has read any of Soren Kierkegaard's works is another matter entirely! No doubt a PHD thesis will emerge at some point on the subject of The Salt Path and Kierkegaardian Truth

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/12/2025 10:19

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 10:05

Without wanting to go down a massive rabbit hole, there are a small number of philosophers (Soren Kierkegaard being the most well known) who subscribe to the concept that there is no such thing as objective truth and that all truth is essentially subjective. I don't happen to agree with them but it is (an albeit minority) philosophical viewpoint.

Whether Sal has read any of Soren Kierkegaard's works is another matter entirely! No doubt a PHD thesis will emerge at some point on the subject of The Salt Path and Kierkegaardian Truth

Edited

[pedant hat on] when SK says 'truth is subjectivity' he doesn't mean 'there are no facts at all' he means something more like 'the truth of your life isn't determined by your accurate understanding of facts or your assent to the facts' [pedant hat off]. About the only thing in common between him and SW/RW is that he liked using pseudonyms...

SlightlyFeckless · 17/12/2025 10:24

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 08:48

Very sorry to hear about your ongoing hair issues. That must be terrible. It's possibly a bit of a sensitive subject but does Moth use hair gel or is his hair naturally like that? It sometimes looks like he's been plugged into an electric socket!

Edited

Old poster from all the previous threads back for the ride, but don’t ask me to list my dozen previous names. I was @WellSurely at one point and I believe I coined ‘glumwashing’.😀

Sorry to hear about hair stuff, @Uricon2. And yes, I have always wondered about TW’s sort of feathery vertical white hair.

Though with the most recent revelations it’s hard not to scrutinise these two ordinary-looking people for concealed horns and a tail!

I suppose for me the new revelations suggest that TSP is just a particularly high-profile, remunerative mega-lie in a long pattern of lying, dishonesty, premeditated theft, delusions, untruths, follie à deux, self-inflicted money troubles and, crucially, using supposed ill health as a ‘get out of jail free’ card.

They’ve been doing this for a long time. They’ve had a lot of practice. Only the stage was larger this time.

In fact that it was part of an established pattern of dishonesty makes some of the oddities of TSP much more plausible — the unrelenting aggressive negativity towards other people, especially those who are perceived to have more, the minor thefts presented as done out of necessity, the waltzing blithely past campsite receptions, the aggrieved response when someone calls them on it, the invention/exaggeration of TW’s condition, the sense of their own special underdog status etc etc.

When I first read TSP, I thought this was the uncensored bitterness of someone suddenly homeless and with a dying spouse.

But no. That’s just how a chronic grifter and thief sees the world, as other people who are undeserving of their cream teas and house extensions.

Other people never recoiled from them because they were homeless, because they were never homeless in the way SW claimed. (They’d stayed with three different relatives before landing at Anne/‘Polly’s’. They were on a hiking holiday.) The snobbery and unease they invent in other people is how they justify their own actions to themselves.

TheTimeTravellersNiece · 17/12/2025 10:28

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 09:30

Jacquie Gammon...

Edited

I read through about half of the comments and it was clear to me that most of those defending RayMoth haven't actually read or seen the Observer pieces. They seem to have heard something about how it isn't all true and defend it from that point...'embellished, artistic licence, subjective truth, blah, blah'. No attempt to examine the actual facts of the matter.

SimoArmo · 17/12/2025 10:35

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 10:05

Without wanting to go down a massive rabbit hole, there are a small number of philosophers (Soren Kierkegaard being the most well known) who subscribe to the concept that there is no such thing as objective truth and that all truth is essentially subjective. I don't happen to agree with them but it is (an albeit minority) philosophical viewpoint.

Whether Sal has read any of Soren Kierkegaard's works is another matter entirely! No doubt a PHD thesis will emerge at some point on the subject of The Salt Path and Kierkegaardian Truth

Edited

I think the big problem with the "my/your truth" argument made by some in defense of RW is that "her personal subjective truth", whatever that may be, only works for her and no one needs to verify it. As soon as it is put in books (or public domain), which essentially asks readers to trust it, "her truth" becomes fallible and must stand up to scrutiny, even if it is subjective. What's more I don't believe we even get "her truth" in her books. I think we get her fantasy of how she wishes to perceive (and have everyone else perceive) her life events and story.

SwetSwetSwet · 17/12/2025 10:46

PinkPanther57 · 16/12/2025 23:09

I think it almost points to a personality disorder. A confessional.

I was puzzled at first that SalRay had written the confession to her family, quoted in the documentary. Then I thought that it followed a pattern.

Easy Winn wrote a confessional about the embezzlement. Plus the section of TSP concerning Grant and the Beauties contained the discussion about lies. “When you tell a story, the first person you must convince is yourself; if you can make yourself believe it’s true, then everyone else will follow…. [Etc etc]”

Then I wondered about TimMoth’s involvement. The whole Grant passage with the weird invented massage for Moth at Grant’s place, which I felt had TimMoth’s influence, was putting SalRay down. It makes me wonder about the balance of their whole relationship.

FierceSilent · 17/12/2025 10:50

SimoArmo · 17/12/2025 10:35

I think the big problem with the "my/your truth" argument made by some in defense of RW is that "her personal subjective truth", whatever that may be, only works for her and no one needs to verify it. As soon as it is put in books (or public domain), which essentially asks readers to trust it, "her truth" becomes fallible and must stand up to scrutiny, even if it is subjective. What's more I don't believe we even get "her truth" in her books. I think we get her fantasy of how she wishes to perceive (and have everyone else perceive) her life events and story.

I think that's why the factual alternative accounts by the Observer are important -- they show how carefully-constructed and partial SW's 'subjective truth' is, and how it rests on a lot of omission and suppression of inconvenient facts such as that the loss of their home was entirely self-inflicted, and self-inflicted as a result of covering up a crime. That the conniving, traitorous individual in the story isn't the fictional 'Cooper'.

That the embezzlement from the Hemmingses wasn't a one-off, but part of a longer pattern of theft from anyone in the Walkers' circle who was trusting enough to let them have access to their bank accounts or workplace cash.

And that the family were familiar enough with TW's supposed ailments to never be worried about him being seriously ill. Feigned illness (not just TW, but also SW pretending to be mentally ill when confronted with theft by her MIL) also seems to be a longterm pattern in their lives.

So when, one assumes Bill Cole starts to ask questions about why his supposedly farm-experienced, mad-about-nature tenants, who claimed to want nothing more than a farm of their own again and outdoor work improving biodiversity to do, haven't managed to make any cider in several years, TW has a lot of practice in pretending to be dying.

They've both talked their way out of trouble many times before. SW talked her way out of prison by convincing 'James' to lend her £100k. In the 'confession letter', she's trying to talk her way out of trouble again by telling her sister to tell the bank there's been a mistake, and that if she goes to the police she's dooming her, SW, to prison. She feigned hallucinations to get out of trouble when TW's mother asked her about the stolen money.

(I was @HumoursofBandon on the last thread...)

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/12/2025 10:54

SimoArmo · 17/12/2025 10:35

I think the big problem with the "my/your truth" argument made by some in defense of RW is that "her personal subjective truth", whatever that may be, only works for her and no one needs to verify it. As soon as it is put in books (or public domain), which essentially asks readers to trust it, "her truth" becomes fallible and must stand up to scrutiny, even if it is subjective. What's more I don't believe we even get "her truth" in her books. I think we get her fantasy of how she wishes to perceive (and have everyone else perceive) her life events and story.

I think this is a great point! Even in circumstances where "my truth" can make sense (eg - nobody else can tell you how your experience felt to you) it's not an excuse for fantasy, self-deception or, er, just plain lying. And in this case it seems reasonably clear that SW/RW must be misrepresenting "her truth," her own feelings and thoughts, as well as the facts on the ground (eg: she was guilty as well as angry about losing the house, she wasn't worried about TW/MW's illness the whole time because he wasn't that ill).

SimonArmpit · 17/12/2025 11:02

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/12/2025 10:54

I think this is a great point! Even in circumstances where "my truth" can make sense (eg - nobody else can tell you how your experience felt to you) it's not an excuse for fantasy, self-deception or, er, just plain lying. And in this case it seems reasonably clear that SW/RW must be misrepresenting "her truth," her own feelings and thoughts, as well as the facts on the ground (eg: she was guilty as well as angry about losing the house, she wasn't worried about TW/MW's illness the whole time because he wasn't that ill).

Exactly - none of the supposedly true feelings expressed in the book can be such for the simple fact that the walks purported to take place in Aug/Sep 2013 and July-Aug 2014 - nearly a year before the first tentative CBS diagnosis in June 2015. Retrofitting what you might have felt had you known something at the time when the events supposedly happened, is, in most people's books called "fiction".

BemusingBrandy · 17/12/2025 11:03

cricketandwhodunnits · 17/12/2025 10:54

I think this is a great point! Even in circumstances where "my truth" can make sense (eg - nobody else can tell you how your experience felt to you) it's not an excuse for fantasy, self-deception or, er, just plain lying. And in this case it seems reasonably clear that SW/RW must be misrepresenting "her truth," her own feelings and thoughts, as well as the facts on the ground (eg: she was guilty as well as angry about losing the house, she wasn't worried about TW/MW's illness the whole time because he wasn't that ill).

Yes, and I remember that the impetus for Chloe included the cancellation of Ros Hemmings' truth:

when Raynor Winn wrote The Salt Path, she cancelled Ros’ truth, so when you start changing the truth for other people, then I think that is an issue... And I do think it matters if people pay money for something they believe is true.

SimoArmo · 17/12/2025 11:18

BemusingBrandy · 17/12/2025 11:03

Yes, and I remember that the impetus for Chloe included the cancellation of Ros Hemmings' truth:

when Raynor Winn wrote The Salt Path, she cancelled Ros’ truth, so when you start changing the truth for other people, then I think that is an issue... And I do think it matters if people pay money for something they believe is true.

Edited

This is very good point that I had not even considered before - whose truth it affects when one replaces truth with fiction.

SalTim have undermined, cancelled or mistold the realities of many people.

  • Cooper aka TW half-uncle and his wife
  • both sets of parents
  • both extended families
  • Polly
  • their children
  • The Hemmings family
  • Cider Bill
  • countless people on "the path" (i.e Grant, Parsons, Minack Actors)
  • the consultant
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