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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that antisemitism now needs to be tackled in the strongest possible way?

993 replies

LucyWestenra · 15/12/2025 11:30

The Bondi thread in chat was eye opening.

Forty pages and a lot of it whataboutery, excuses and vile antisemitism.

It’s disgusting.

It needs to be called out. It needs to be rooted out.

I feel so sorry for the Jewish communities everywhere. How can they possibly feel safe?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
moderate · 17/12/2025 17:03

pointythings · 17/12/2025 17:00

To be fair, I think that 'Israel' is shorthand for 'the Israeli government'. Under the circumstances I think it's important that this be typed out in full every time though.

'Israel' as a country is not collectively responsible for the atrocities committed in Gaza. Its government very much is.

If "Israel" were short for "the Israeli government", then the same speaker would surely use "Gaza" as short for "Hamas"?

LucyWestenra · 17/12/2025 17:03

moderate · 17/12/2025 17:03

If "Israel" were short for "the Israeli government", then the same speaker would surely use "Gaza" as short for "Hamas"?

👏

And if not, why not?

OP posts:
BackToLurk · 17/12/2025 17:04

HappyFace2025 · 17/12/2025 16:39

It seems that there are posters on this thread who have (conveniently) forgotten that the majority of the 1200 people butchered to death in 7 October 2023 were young people at the Nova festival. The comparison with Glastonbury is relevant.
Meanwhile back to antisemitism which this thread illustrates that it is alive and well and living in the UK.

Many were also involved in Israeli peace movements and cross-community work. But, you know ‘just Jews’.

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2025 17:05

singmoon · 17/12/2025 14:13

I oppose anti semitism. I just dispute what is termed anti semitism, when it is in fact legitimate criticism of Israel. If we can agree that we will ruthlessly target anti semitism, which does not include protest at Israel and its actions, then we are in agreement surely?

Unbelievable.

Twiglets1 · 17/12/2025 17:05

Kingscallops · 17/12/2025 17:00

Can't believe how many of the recurring goady posters aren't getting banned.

I have thought this many times when posting on the Conflict in the Middle East board. Would also be intrigued to know exactly how many antisemitic posts have to be made (& deleted, so the mods are aware of them) before MN feels a poster should be banned.

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:05

So you blame ‘Hamas’ and ‘Israel’ not ‘Palestine’ and ‘Israel’ or ‘Hamas’ and ‘Likud’. Do you see the difference? One is blaming an entire country and one is blaming a specific sub section.

I don't think it is quite so clear, I'm trying to state factually who's taken the decisions to commit those actions. Israel is a recognised state & Likud are the elected party so they have the authority to take decisions on behalf of the state. I am not blaming all of the citizens of Israel for this, I'm aware many oppose and protest the conflict. I hope when there are elections they vote accordingly.

Palestine isn't (& wasn't in 2023) a fully recognised state, Hamas operate in exile & aren't internationally recognised as a government, they are labelled as a terrorist organisation. They are who have taken decisions to commit atrocities such as 7th october massacre.

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:06

Unbelievable

Are you saying criticism of the state of Israel is anti-semitism?

SisterTeatime · 17/12/2025 17:10

Genericfestiveusername · 17/12/2025 16:21

How is that justifying Oct 7 please by stating that a terrorist attack at Glastonbury is not an identical situation given as far as I'm aware Glastonbury isn't illegally occupying anyone. Comparing it to a similar situation with the same nuance such as the UK's occupation of Ireland too complicated?

Also how dare you insinuate I am justifying anything, if you continue to make stuff up I'll report it as a personal attack 👍🏿 Use your thoughts and your words to make a point instead of reaching for an untruth and twisting words

PP compared Nova to Glastonbury and you asked which country the UK was occupying in this hypothetical example.

Another pp then stated that the UK wasn’t occupying anywhere at the time of the Ariana Grande attack. In other words, terrorist attacks on civilians happen frequently without the ‘provocation’ you seemed to be referring to.

I took your question about which country the UK was theoretically occupying was intended to present the (common) idea that Hamas’s attack was justified.

There’s no need to insult me for ‘daring’ to respond to your comment, let alone threaten to report me.

Kingscallops · 17/12/2025 17:10

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:06

Unbelievable

Are you saying criticism of the state of Israel is anti-semitism?

It certainly is when it's being used by bad faith posters to justify Islamic terrorism aimed at Jews. This really is so evident because instead of passing this thread by or sending condolences it seems some really want to put the boot in.

HappyFace2025 · 17/12/2025 17:14

Kingscallops · 17/12/2025 17:00

Can't believe how many of the recurring goady posters aren't getting banned.

Me neither.

HappyFace2025 · 17/12/2025 17:17

BackToLurk · 17/12/2025 17:04

Many were also involved in Israeli peace movements and cross-community work. But, you know ‘just Jews’.

Indeed they were.

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2025 17:17

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:06

Unbelievable

Are you saying criticism of the state of Israel is anti-semitism?

Nope.

BackToLurk · 17/12/2025 17:18

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:06

Unbelievable

Are you saying criticism of the state of Israel is anti-semitism?

I’m sure there are people who criticise the decisions of this Israeli government without being antisemitic, many of them in Israel, it’s just we hardly ever see them. Just faux liberals obsessed with one conflict and slipping all too easily into antisemitic tropes.

PurpleThistle7 · 17/12/2025 17:19

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:06

Unbelievable

Are you saying criticism of the state of Israel is anti-semitism?

Of course it is in the way it’s being done. No one says ‘the USA does xyz so let’s get rid of the country’ they say ‘wow trump is kind of crazy. Let’s see how we can influence the next vote’

saying ’israel’ is the problem is a huge problem. No shorthand needed in these conversations, we all have plenty to say.

And Hamas was also elected. And when they invaded and kidnapped and raped and murdered the streets were lined with cheering people so…

PurpleThistle7 · 17/12/2025 17:22

Notice I haven’t seen yet what the right response would have been to a horde of bloodthirsty rapists storming the border and calling for the destruction of the entire country…

The issue is there’s no negotiating with a terrorist group. They aren’t interested in a peaceful settlement or and end to violence. They are inherently evil, violent people. So what would the ‘right’ thing even look like? They won’t even use the word Israel so how do you start a friendly chat about maybe not raping my population while cheering joyfully. And you can say but decades of whatever and I’d counter with decades of other things too - there’s a reason for the iron dome and it wasn’t because Israel’s neighbours tend to throw flowers.

SoulSearchBeHonest · 17/12/2025 17:26

noblegiraffe · 17/12/2025 14:04

Joint Statement from the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police

We begin by acknowledging the horrific terrorist attack in Australia, where Jews were deliberately targeted whilst enjoying the Hanukkah celebrations. Our thoughts are with those who lost their lives, their families and those injured. Coming so soon after the Heaton Park Synagogue attack in Manchester and amid rising antisemitism globally, this is deeply alarming. Jewish communities across London, Greater Manchester, and the rest of the United Kingdom are already worried and scared - and this only adds to it.

Antisemitic hate crime has surged, protests have intensified, and online abuse has grown since 2023. These trends create real fear and disrupt daily life – and have an impact on how safe the Jewish community feel when attending synagogues and other communal spaces. Jewish children attend schools behind fences, guarded by security and routine police patrols. No community should have to live like this. That must change.

The two recent terror attacks targeting Jews, the increased fear in Jewish communities, and high number of terrorist attacks disrupted in recent years requires an enhanced response. Current laws are inadequate, and we welcome the fact that the Home Secretary has asked Lord Ken Macdonald KC to review the current public order and hate crime legislation.

The words and chants used, especially in protests, matter and have real world consequences. We have consistently been advised by the CPS that many of the phrases causing fear in Jewish communities don’t meet prosecution thresholds. Now, in the escalating threat context, we will recalibrate to be more assertive.

We know communities are concerned about placards and chants such as “globalise the intifada” and those using it at future protest or in a targeted way should expect the Met and GMP to take action. Violent acts have taken place, the context has changed - words have meaning and consequence. We will act decisively and make arrests.

Frontline officers will be briefed on this enhanced approach. We will also use powers under the Public Order Act, including conditions around London synagogues during services.

Visible patrols and protective security measures around synagogues, schools, and community venues have been stepped up in London and Greater Manchester. We are intensifying investigations into hate crime, and Counter Terrorism Policing continues to operate 24/7 to identify and disrupt threats.

These measures are practical and immediate - designed to keep communities safe, deter intimidation, and enforce the law. Our intent is clear: create a hostile environment for offenders and a safer environment for Jewish communities, while protecting lawful protest. All members of society have a responsibility to consider their impact on others – it is possible to protest in support of Palestinian people without intimidating Jewish communities or breaking the law.

We want you to hear this clearly: we see you, we hear you, and we stand with you. Your safety and wellbeing matter to all of us. Please keep talking to us and to each other; report incidents promptly; and make use of our dedicated neighbourhood teams.

Hanukkah reminds us that light endures, even in the darkest times. We will continue to work night and day to keep you safe.

We know communities are concerned about placards and chants such as “globalise the intifada” and those using it at future protest or in a targeted way should expect the Met and GMP to take action. Violent acts have taken place, the context has changed - words have meaning and consequence. We will act decisively and make arrests.

Good. About time too. Arrest the hate filled marchers. Uncover their faces and show everyone who they are.

Meanwhile, the Palestine Action violent cowards who broke the back of a policewoman with a sledgehammer (it's on film), broke into an airbase causing millions in damage to planes which have nothing to do with the war in Gaza at all, whipped a security guard are supported by Magic Granddad Corbyn and other left idiots and those supporting the ones who commit violent crimes should do time with them. Deluded people sitting down with signs supporting violent individuals obviously should be arrested.

moderate · 17/12/2025 17:30

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:05

So you blame ‘Hamas’ and ‘Israel’ not ‘Palestine’ and ‘Israel’ or ‘Hamas’ and ‘Likud’. Do you see the difference? One is blaming an entire country and one is blaming a specific sub section.

I don't think it is quite so clear, I'm trying to state factually who's taken the decisions to commit those actions. Israel is a recognised state & Likud are the elected party so they have the authority to take decisions on behalf of the state. I am not blaming all of the citizens of Israel for this, I'm aware many oppose and protest the conflict. I hope when there are elections they vote accordingly.

Palestine isn't (& wasn't in 2023) a fully recognised state, Hamas operate in exile & aren't internationally recognised as a government, they are labelled as a terrorist organisation. They are who have taken decisions to commit atrocities such as 7th october massacre.

Hamas are the elected government of Gaza. Support for their governance at the time of the Oct 7 attacks was high. Support for their atrocities was even higher.

web.archive.org/web/20240324132225/www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969

To think that antisemitism now needs to be tackled in the strongest possible way?
To think that antisemitism now needs to be tackled in the strongest possible way?
To think that antisemitism now needs to be tackled in the strongest possible way?
SoulSearchBeHonest · 17/12/2025 17:30

moderate · 17/12/2025 16:38

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet but it looks like "globalise the intifada" isn't going to be acceptable any more in London and Manchester: https://news.met.police.uk/news/joint-statement-from-the-commissioner-of-the-metropolitan-police-and-the-chief-constable-of-greater-manchester-police-504494

Brilliant news.

singmoon · 17/12/2025 17:31

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2025 17:05

Unbelievable.

It's a very reasonable point. Protesting Israeli actions is not anti semitic, and just saying that it is over and over doesn't make it so.

Kingscallops · 17/12/2025 17:31

PinkTonic · 17/12/2025 13:12

The UN is demonstrably antisemitic so their classification is expected

Yeah but but their word is authority, its gospel. Shame the same can't be said about the decision to interpret the Intifada - finally for what it is. No no no, the police don't know what they are talking about. Other people know better. More double standards from the accusers of genocide denial. I see plenty of denial here though!

singmoon · 17/12/2025 17:33

Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 16:41

the majority of the 1200 people butchered to death in 7 October 2023 were young people at the Nova festival.

The massacre on 7th October was abhorrent. Israel's response has been disproportionate and is also abhorrent. Nothing justifies the levels of violence on either side.

Exactly this

Kingscallops · 17/12/2025 17:33

singmoon · 17/12/2025 17:31

It's a very reasonable point. Protesting Israeli actions is not anti semitic, and just saying that it is over and over doesn't make it so.

Your presence trying to gaslight and intimidate isn't working. Only the other fruit loops are listening.

pointythings · 17/12/2025 17:36

moderate · 17/12/2025 17:03

If "Israel" were short for "the Israeli government", then the same speaker would surely use "Gaza" as short for "Hamas"?

Maybe, maybe not. I can't read minds. So I say 'the Israeli government' and 'Hamas' instead. Clarity matters.

However, this thread is full of people who equate criticism of the Israeli government's actions in Gaza with antisemitism, so this isn't a thread where anyone has the right to throw stones.

LucyWestenra · 17/12/2025 17:37

Kingscallops · 17/12/2025 17:33

Your presence trying to gaslight and intimidate isn't working. Only the other fruit loops are listening.

Indeed.

I can’t even take that poster seriously anymore.

OP posts:
Peridoteage · 17/12/2025 17:37

moderate · 17/12/2025 17:30

Hamas are the elected government of Gaza. Support for their governance at the time of the Oct 7 attacks was high. Support for their atrocities was even higher.

web.archive.org/web/20240324132225/www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969

I am happy to stand corrected. If its more appropriate to refer to Hamas & Likud as comparable in terms of accountability I am happy to going forward. It seems a bit less correct to compare Palestine & Israel when Israel is fully recognised as a state and Palestine isnt.

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