Estranged brother moving to where we live

[User28884995]

I want to preface this by saying I am not anti Muslim, I am atheist myself but the way in which the following has come about has been very worrying. My brother converted to become a Muslim around 6 years ago, this is something that was never in our upbringing or culture, it happened to him at a time he was struggling mentally and had been friends with another Muslim who likely influenced this. He has always had an obsessional nature and went on to engage with the religious following in a very obsessional extreme and strict manner,
like it was another fixation for him. His girlfriend at the time reached out expressing her worry of him converting and forcing this upon her, saying that he was saying he couldn’t be in the same room as her unless they were married and that she didn’t know what to do, that he was being overbearing with his new beliefs and pushing it onto her. There was worry that he was being radicalised and it all felt very scary. Family intervened but he stuck to this and went on to fully convert, his girlfriend ended up doing so too and they then married with an Islamic wedding. She know expresses how devoted she is to this religion and works in a field where she actively supports the religion but I cannot forget her cries for help and how she said he was forcing this on her by being overbearing with his beliefs and saying she needed to convert for them to be together in the same room. I haven’t been able to accept this as being ok and have kept personal distance. I now have two young children and I do not feel able to involve them in their lives due to the evolution of how this happened. This has been bearable as we have lived some distance apart so have gone ahead with our own lives but yesterday I have been told by another family member they are moving to our small neighbourhood. We have spent years and all our money to build what we have and to get our child into their school. I am feeling very worried by this and the impact it will have on how we feel able to live here. They did not mention this at all previously despite knowing we live here, there are many other areas they could have chosen in a large city yet have chosen very close proximity to us whereby I now feel worried of crossing paths with them and their presence having an impact on what we have built for our children. Everyone was worried and scared by how he behaved at the beginning of this but due to people living their own space it has not been imposing onto their lives but it is of our now young family. This is coming from a place of knowing when he chose this path it was put upon his girlfriend and not from a positive place. We are basically estranged from them as cannot forget how this came about but are really struggling with them now choosing to live so very close to us. Any advice appreciated as I feel I will worry now just living in my own area.

You feel sorry for someone who forced a partner to convert and they were telling me of being in a lot of distress?

Yes, I would be concerned about that too.

Given you don’t seem to understand why he can’t live with a woman he’s not married to, I’m not sure you understand what you’re narrating.

If the girlfriend chose to marry rather than break up, how is the is him forcing her?

I think you have chosen to see it that way.

You realise she could have left him, right?

It seems like she chose to convert so she could marry him. I can't see where he has tried to contact you, in fact I interpreted that you had broken your estrangement to contact him....

He didn't force her. He told her that for their relationship to continue she would need to convert. Her choice was to convert or to leave the relationship. Her choice.
He didn't force her to marry him. He said that in order for them to be (sleep, live...) in the same space, they would need to be married. She had a choice of leaving him or marrying him. He did not gather a bunch of men from the Mosque to kidnap her and threaten to kill her family if she doesn't convert or marry him. That would be forced marriage.
She had a choice and she made it of her own volition.

But none of this matters even if he did "force" her to marry. Because him living in your area has still got nothing to do with you unless you make it so.

Not sure you can swap out Muslim for gay tbh.

I can see where you are coming from OP- it’s not the religion or even him being religious, it’s the way he is behaving within that religion. He sounds very radicalised.

As you are estranged it is a very strange choice to move very close to you. I can see how that might cause worry when you have children. Again, it is not the religion, it’s the fact he has already converted someone In the past who didn’t initially want to follow that religion, it means he has form.

I live in close proximity to a family member i’m estranged from (for much different reasons) and I can tell you now, it’s hard. It’s difficult when your paths cross, and it’s difficult when they are spreading their views to people, because within a small community it does cause problems.

The problem is, there is absolutely nothing you can do unless you move. But if his motivation for moving is to be near you and he is renting, he will just be able to follow you. Although stalking is an offence, from experiencing it from my family member, I know first hand that the police don’t take it seriously within that relationship.

I think you’re being massively dramatic … if he genuinely wished to convert you or your family he would have tried a long time ago. Him moving into the area isn’t going to impact you as he clearly moves in different circles.

You have been asked multiple times on here what behaviours has he exhibited that warrant you to be ‘scared’ ? So far nothing you have mentioned sound like he is a threat, violent or physically violent so you sound paranoid.

Or any other identity

You realise that any woman in an abusive or coercively controlling relationship could have left, right? Them staying and complying with the wants of their partner must obviously be an indication that they’re ok with it...

Or is it only acceptable to control your partner when religion is involved?

If anyone genuinely thinks a woman goes from pleading and desperate for help due to the radical change in her partner which he was actively pushing on her, to converting and changing her entire life to suit him despite expressing no desire to follow those beliefs independent of his influence, without there being some level of coercive control in the relationship, I have a bridge to sell them.

I get it OP. I adore my aunt but she is so desperately religious and only talks about religion the whole time you are there I just can't see her any more.
Its religion and praying in front of me from the beginning of the visit to the end and is exhausting. She's Christian and Im pagan.
Id really like to have a relationship with her especially now she's older but this has literally driven me away.

There's nothing that suggests that he is abusive, he has become very religious.

Sure, and there is never any coercive control by men who are extremely religious, especially not by converts who happen to be particularly zealous. It sounds absolutely like converting was completely and freely her choice and she was in no way scared, worried, or vulnerable when making that choice.

Sorry but his is factually not true/ she messaged saying she was having the religion forced upon her by him

I would keep my distance. Tell anyone who asks that he is your brother but you are estranged. Don't tell them the reason, don't go into it at all. It's too private, and not anyone's business.

I wouldn't have him at the house or nea rmy children.

Any man who thinks women are purely sexual objects and men cannot help themselves around them, is not a man I want to be around.

Did you suggest she leave or advise her how she might escape this? If so, what did she say?

You don't have to have a relationship with him or his wife. You could continue to have a very distant one - where you acknowledge each other if you pass each other on the street but you don't actually spend time together. You could spend some limited time together, say a meal for special events a few times a year. Or you could be in each other's lives weekly or daily.
How much influence he has over your children is within your control as their parent while they are young. If you feel he is over-influencing them you reduce contact. As they get older you explain why contact is limited. There could be any number of unpleasantly controlling men in your neighbourhood and you don't need to expose your children to them and shouldn't unless you have put appropriate boundaries in place.

If you have even the tiniest concern that SIL was coerced and is unhappy in her marriage and changed situation, then having her close by could be helpful to her.

Do you think that your brother was depressed before converting? Do you see any benefits that Islam has made to his life?

I think you're forgetting how much agency you have about not interacting with your brother and him potentially being an influence on your children. No one needs to know you're related.
If he didn't even know you lived where you do, you living there can't have been a consideration in his choice to move.
I understand that knowing he lives closer by isn't ideal, but again, you still have agency about how much, if any, interaction you have with him.

I think you missed my sarcasm op. I was responding to the person that said there was no suggestion of abuse. If you read my post above you’ll see that I’m expressing concern for her.

This! Also, its unlikely these beliefs will suddenly be attractive to your kids just because your estranged brother holds them.

OP you cannot control him or his wife. You can however keep him at arms length in terms of interaction especially for your children.

A simple no is sufficient and do not expose them if you are worried about radicalisation.

In terms of you within the community a simple we do not get on and do not interact should suffice should you be asked. If he is that strict it's highly unlikely he will be interacting with a lot of the community anyway as there are elements of not being close friends with non believers. In my experience that is not the following of the very large majority of British muslims but the very extreme end (similar to very orthodox jews) they can follow this one.

Just don’t interact with him . Unless he’s moving in literally next door your paths don’t have to cross .

Regardless of the ins and outs of how or why your brother converted his religion or if his wife was forced or not...you can't dictate where they live. You can't control others behaviour, all you can control is your reaction to the behaviour. You'll need to decide how you wish to handle the situation if you happen to see them both or individually in the street? Ignore them? Cross the road? Say hello? Do your children know who your brother and his wife are? Have they met him before? They aren't going to drag you off to the nearest mosque and insist you convert and they're not going to do that to your children either. Leave them to their lives and you carry on with yours, just have a plan on how you handle the situation if you were to see them in the street.

If she didn't want the religion 'forced' on her, she could have left him - but instead she made the choice to stay with him. She had a choice of leaving him or converting, and she chose to convert.

In any case - this still has zero bearing on whether your brother lives in the same town as you or not. Whatever went on in his marriage, it still doesn't mean his presence in your town is going to affect you or your children.

Again, you haven't given any good reason why this is going to cause you any problems. You don't have to have any contact with him just because he lives near you.