Estranged brother moving to where we live

[User28884995]

I want to preface this by saying I am not anti Muslim, I am atheist myself but the way in which the following has come about has been very worrying. My brother converted to become a Muslim around 6 years ago, this is something that was never in our upbringing or culture, it happened to him at a time he was struggling mentally and had been friends with another Muslim who likely influenced this. He has always had an obsessional nature and went on to engage with the religious following in a very obsessional extreme and strict manner,
like it was another fixation for him. His girlfriend at the time reached out expressing her worry of him converting and forcing this upon her, saying that he was saying he couldn’t be in the same room as her unless they were married and that she didn’t know what to do, that he was being overbearing with his new beliefs and pushing it onto her. There was worry that he was being radicalised and it all felt very scary. Family intervened but he stuck to this and went on to fully convert, his girlfriend ended up doing so too and they then married with an Islamic wedding. She know expresses how devoted she is to this religion and works in a field where she actively supports the religion but I cannot forget her cries for help and how she said he was forcing this on her by being overbearing with his beliefs and saying she needed to convert for them to be together in the same room. I haven’t been able to accept this as being ok and have kept personal distance. I now have two young children and I do not feel able to involve them in their lives due to the evolution of how this happened. This has been bearable as we have lived some distance apart so have gone ahead with our own lives but yesterday I have been told by another family member they are moving to our small neighbourhood. We have spent years and all our money to build what we have and to get our child into their school. I am feeling very worried by this and the impact it will have on how we feel able to live here. They did not mention this at all previously despite knowing we live here, there are many other areas they could have chosen in a large city yet have chosen very close proximity to us whereby I now feel worried of crossing paths with them and their presence having an impact on what we have built for our children. Everyone was worried and scared by how he behaved at the beginning of this but due to people living their own space it has not been imposing onto their lives but it is of our now young family. This is coming from a place of knowing when he chose this path it was put upon his girlfriend and not from a positive place. We are basically estranged from them as cannot forget how this came about but are really struggling with them now choosing to live so very close to us. Any advice appreciated as I feel I will worry now just living in my own area.

Is there a strong Muslim community in your area? Surely he will gravitate towards people he believes to be living to the standards he does?

You lead a secular life and are grounded enough to be wary of him so while it could be uncomfortable to bump into them I think you can quite easily have boundaries around the contact he has with your family.

Also he cannot radicalise anyone without access don't give it to him

I can’t see the issue with this.

This.
I understand how you feel but you have more control than you realise. You don't have to spend time with him and you don't have to allow your children to be around him either.

While I can understand it was a distressing and confusing time for you when your brother found Islam, it isn't really any different to his choosing to become a devout Christian. Islam isn't some big scary force that automatically turns people into suicide bombers. That is Daily Mail / Reform propaganda. I imagine that your brother was super strict at the beginning of his journey into Islam because it was new and he was super keen to get it all right.

I have several friends and a lot of students who are Muslim and they're average, everyday people. They have differing levels of devoutness. Some pray five times a day. Some never pray. A couple cover their heads, some don't.

While his girlfriend may have been freaked out to begin with, she must have chosen to convert because no Muslim community / Imam would have accepted her if they felt she was being coerced.

It's up to you if you want to remain estranged. But you can't control where he buys a house.

OP, you keep saying you are distressed by his religious choices and the way he treated his girlfriend and I completely understand that. But that has absolutely nothing to do with him living in the same area as you.

However, I don’t understand why you have an issue with him living in your area. Just because he might live near you, you don’t have to talk to him or let your children see him. You’re not even obliged to acknowledge him in the street. It doesn’t sound like he’s ever harassed you?

How on earth do you think he is going to convert your children just by having a child at the same school or living in the same area. It’s not like you’re going to be inviting them round for tea. You’re estranged.

You couldn’t stop any other family from moving to your area just because you dislike their views or lifestyle. I live in an area where there is a very large and very strict religious community (not Muslim) of people who segregate unmarried men and women and impose very strict modest dress codes and eschew birth control. Do I think their religious rules are unreasonable and oppressive within their community? Yes. Does that scare me or have any negative influence on my life? No, it really doesn’t. And I certainly wouldn’t expect to be able to object to members of that community living in my area, so I don’t really see why you think your brother shouldn’t live in yours.

OP, Islam is not a lurgy, it's not catching.

Your brother is estranged from you, it sounds highly unlikely that he is going to come knocking on your door. He is entitled to come back to the area he grew up in.

It sounds like you're ashamed to have a Muslim sibling and don't want your 'small community' to know. Just tell people you're estranged if anyone asks.

You say you are worried about him being radical but have given zero evidence.

Just continue to keep your distance.

what was scary was that he was saying he couldn’t be in a room by himself with his girlfriend unless they were married and he forced his religious conversion choice into her-

When he says he can't be in a room alone with her, it's not because he is suddenly going to attack her, it's because Muslim men and women aren't allowed to have a relationship or live together or anything like unless they're married.

And how did he force her? If he told her that they could only stay together if she concerts to Islam, then that is her choice to make. Unless you're saying he held a gun to her head?

Has he actually been radicalised or has he just converted to Islam?

If you think he has extremest views then report him to Prevent:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/get-help-if-youre-worried-about-someone-being-radicalised

Very few muslims are extremists though so mostly this is definitely not the case.

This isn’t the area we grew up in- it’s a small area we have been living in for five years and he has now made the decision to move into this small space without previously mentioning it and knowing we live here

in terms of the comment of would this be different if he were gay- that would be the Same as if he was forcing a sexuality on a partner and so I just don’t think it’s comparable- the ironic thing is he disagrees with people being gay which is again something I can’t accept

The gay comparison is a total straw man.

Its actually more like he is gay... and wants to talk about it all the time including his gimp mask and butt plugs and he want adults and children to be involved in this. He talks his girlfriend into believing shes a transman called Frank and she must now "like as a man and grow a beard and bind her breasts....And he wants to try and convince everyone around him they all need to be a big gay bear or a twink too 🙄

Back to your point.

I'd give the "community" a heads up that you are NC with him.
You dont know why he is moving here specifically or what his agenda is but you dont think its anything good and are very unsettled by it.
obviously its up to them but you dont think he is to be trusted and you'd prefer he and his wife were not told any of your business

Do they have kids and will the kids be in your children's school?

If so and its os a problem when they arrive
.. I'd legit look at renting your house out and moving away maybe just 10 miles or so for a couple of years until he pisses off out of it .

I feel for you and see why its uncomfortable.
Id also keep your children as far away from him as possible with age appropriate explanations

It seems as if you think that you have to interact with him just because he is moving nearby?

You are estranged and presumably low or no contact. Keep it that way and set clear boundaries from the beginning. Don’t engage with him, and if he tries to force contact have a very low tolerance for reporting him for harassment, and nothing has to change.

Are you estranged or not? Why don't you go no contact?

Alternatively, you could try building bridges and actually talk to him, just you and him.

It sounds really scary for you. Religion scares me when it's imposed on other people like this. If someone is religious to become a better person I don't have a problem with that; I have a problem with beliefs being imposed on others from a position of power (like he did with his girlfriend). You can't control where your brother chooses to live, but you can absolutely control the level of interaction you and your family want to have with him - he doesn't have any power to impose his beliefs on you and your family, unless you let him. Have you found it difficult to have boundaries in the past? The great thing about being an adult is that you can enforce boundaries including with your family.

We have been very low contact, what I understand to be estranged, but then I was informed by another family member they have arranged to move to rent here in two weeks, he knew we lived here for years and have children at school

I wouldnt worry about your kids, if you have frank and open discussions about religion, warts n all, with a healthy dose of cynicism, there is no need for them to see it as an attractive option surely

I’m still not clear what you feel threatened by. Just because he will be living closer to you? So what?

You are coming across rather weird. His religion and his relationship is his business. You can’t tell him where to live.

You sound rather Hyacinth Bucket not wanting your naice neighbours to know you have a Muslim brother.

But you could live next door to someone with those views, or round the corner from them. That doesn’t mean your child is forced to agree. If you don’t spend time with him and his girlfriend how would they be able to force those views on your kids?!

OP, all you're doing in all your posts on this thread is simply telling us over and over again that you are very opposed to your brother's views. That's fine. You can make a very good case for being in opposition to some of the things he's said and done. But all of that is totally irrelevant to the fact that he might move to your area.

All you've done is tell us why you're upset about his conversion to Islam - you haven't said how you think you, or anyone else, will be harmed by him living near you.

I can 100% guarantee you that you already live in close proximity to all sorts of people whose views and private behaviours you would find repellent if you were aware of them - and yet neither you nor your children have been harmed by this. So why would you be harmed someone with views you dislike living near you just because they happen to be your estranged brother? He isn't suggesting a reconciliation and neither is he trying to convert you to Islam.

You don't speak to your brother, and you are perfectly at liberty to completely blank him in the street if you want to. How do you think he's going to 'radicalise' or convert your children simply by living in the same town? His religion isn't going to spread from person to person until it reaches you. It's Islam, not Covid.

Really feel for you here OP. I wonder what his motivation is for moving into your immediate vicinity particularly as you are estranged? If it isn't an area that he has ties to it seems an odd choice. This would concern me too, even without the Islamic conversion issues. I'd make it very clear to him that you won't be in contact. Good that they're renting rather than buying as hopefully it might mean it's not a long-term choice.

Contact him to tell him you wont be contacting him?!

You can't dictate where he lives. You can't control what he does. You can only control what you do and how you interact with him. You dont have to have a relationship with him. You dont have to engage with him. Your core values dont align and that's fine. I think you'll find that lots of religions share the same core values both negative and positive ones.

If you want a good book on religion for the kids this is with buying:

https://amzn.eu/d/hD74WWi

Is your brother a bad person, OP?

You have used the word 'radicalised'; a word I doubt you would have used if your brother had decided to become involved with his local Church of England Church, for example.

You can't know what finally made his girlfriend join him in becoming involved with the religion.

For all we know, the 2 of them could be doing a lot of very good work for their local religious organisation and community.

Them moving closer to you is meaningless. You still don't have to see them if you don't wish to. Your children do not have to see them of you do not wish them to.