Xmas dilemma

[deviantfeline]

A good friend (Joan) moved away recently after a difficult breakup. She’s coming back for a couple of days over Xmas so her son can spent time with his Dad and GP so she’ll be alone on Xmas day.
Me and DH are having a quiet one with a friend on Xmas day(Paula). Paula knows Joan but not very well and she has said she finds her a bit too much. Paula is naturally quiet but is engaged when it’s just the three of us. Joan loves to spend hours talking about herself very loudly and not listening to others conversations so she naturally dominates any chat which means Paula sits in silence as she bangs on about her own stuff
Joan has asked to join us on Xmas day.
AGGH what do I do? I don’t feel I can leave a friend alone on Xmas day but then again I don’t want Paula to feel squeezed out and she thought it was a quiet one with just the three of us.
If I ask Paula she will pull a face and say sheepishly ‘sure’ which leaves me in same place.
AIBU to tell Joan to come and hope she pipes down enough for Paula to get a word in? Or should I make excuses to Joan for lunch and tell her to come for drinks later or something.

I'd rather be on my own than with people who thought I should consider myself lucky to be getting an invitation

However it's about other people, not me. If I were Paula I'd be upset to have accepted the invitation and then find the goalposts had been moved. If Joan is being invited she needs to be told beforehand to rein it in and be considerate of others but I don't see why she has to be accommodated at all. She shouldn't expect to be able to invite herself because she's failed to plan, and I don't see what's so special about one day that she's going to be damaged by having to occupy herself.

Thing is you're not really responsible for Joan's xmas. She's has made the choice to come back for her son's visit, so she knew the type of Xmas she was setting herself up for. You don't have to make that better and feeling responsible is ill-placed.
If it were me, I'd either stick to my original plans, or invite Joan around in the evening for a drink, maybe get the games out so it's easier on Paula.

I am another one who thinks Joan is very rude to ask if she can come. It is good manners to wait for an invitation. You invited Paula first, so your responsibility lies with her.
You can either invite Joan on another day or you can be completely honest with her and tell her she talks too much about herself and can only come if she wants to do something about it.

Speaking as someone who was widowed 3 years ago, I don't get why it's apparently so awful to be on your own at Christmas. The first year I was invited to someone's family gathering and it was all so raw that I really appreciated being thought of. Since then, though, I've had a great day alone doing exactly what I felt like doing. I've sometimes joined people for mince pies/leftovers at 6 pm which has suited everyone. Don't put yourself out and potentially spoil someone's day by trying to solve a problem that may not even exist.

Id rather spend Christmas day being entertained by someone slightly boisterous who i dont see often than having to gently coax an introvert i see every week out of their shell.
And it sounds like you agree OP else you wouldnt be asking.

But she invited Paula first. It's rude to invite someone then change the dynamics. And if you're invited to someone's house and find you're not enjoying yourself, it's just about impossible to leave.

Joan sounds like a self-absorbed migraine inducing pain in the arse with main character syndrome. Entertaining? Maybe for 20 minutes. Mostly just draining. Team Paula all the way!

Yes this is the solution. Also I would mention to Joan that " Paula gets a bit overwhelmed with larger characters so we need to be mindful to include her in the conversation as you know what we're like when we get jabbering together "

I find it bizarre that grown adults can’t manage to socialise with those different from themselves for a few hours at Christmas!

Paula should be able to cope, as an adult with full capacity I assume, and if she can’t, then that’s her issue not OP’s or Joan’s.

My experience of Christmas is that everyone enjoys the festivities and company, and joins in. I think you might be over thinking this op, unless Paula is hard work and rigid and can’t go with the flow in the spirit of Christmas.

It hasn't been said that Paula wouldn't manage to socialise with Joan there. However she was invited to one type of gathering and there will now be a different one. I think putting that in place at this stage is impolite.

TBH I'd be glad to have Joan to liven things up.

I'd apologise to Paula and tell her you know it's not what she was expecting, but you can't leave a friend alone on Chrisrmas day, which Paula would surely understand?

I'd probably plan some games or something, so that Joan can't talk about herself all day and so that Paula doesn't feel obliged to make conversation all day. Maybe go for a walk at some point so everyone's not indoors together all day.

Who is Joanne? 🤷‍♀️

Loud and talks all the time, mostly about herself. Is she a teacher by any chance?

Being an Introvert is just a point on a scale of the way people socialise and get their social needs met - from the energy of others, collaboratively, or alone and more reflectively. It isn't a protected characteristic or a SEN.

I am bemused by the frequent view on MN that introverts are the hapless victims of evil extroverts. OK, extroverts can be a PITA but so can introverts - often not much would happen without the initiative or motivation of extroverts. There is a theatre exercise about making eye contact. Interaction builds between those who make eye contact with others who do and also those who don't. Nothing happens between two non-contacters. They are isolated - OK maybe that is a preference, but also not part of any building of a community or society. That is left to extroverts and those who interact with extroverts. I get a bit eye rolley about this special status afforded to those who can't or choose not to interact socially.

(I am probably a middle-way sort of person)

Paula presumably has no one else to be with at Christmas.

Same as Joan.

Both are friends. Both equal of a welcome in YOUR home as YOU choose.

However, to be pragmatic, I might have a drink with Joan first to let her unload what has been happening wrt her break up as that wouldn't be ideal as Christmas Day conversation centrepiece for any extended time.

But Paula presumably will not dissolve or burst into tears or be utterly miserable because you include Joan. She might even have sympathy for Joan and understand you wish (if you do wish) to include her.

Don't second guess Paula or be patronising about her ability to have a good time alongside Joan.

Look at your people pleasing tendencies in the middle of all this. (that is a note to myself - I would need reminding of that)

Good luck - I hope you have a lovely Christmas whatever you decide.

Why should she be?

Because most, if not all, of the people I know like this are teachers or retired teachers.
I think the problem is, they spend their working lives talking loudly, in front of an audience, without interruption and it becomes second nature to them.

I think that if Joan was spending Christmas in her own home, that would be different but she will be stuck in a crappy motel with no restaurant or other facilities while her child spends Christmas with his dad.

If you seriously think that's what teachers do, you don't know much about teaching.

To be fair, I’m a teacher and I know a lot of teachers like this! Mainly older teachers who spent most of their careers doing “chalk and talk” with the children silently taking notes.

That hasn't been common practice for a long time though.

My mum was a teacher and would definitely be Paula in this situation. I've seen her teach and it was like she developed a completely different personality.

Put yourself in each of their shoes and make your decision from that I suppose. Alternatively, cancel everything and just go out with your husband x

This. I think it's weird that she's invited herself for Christmas at this stage. She sounds totally lacking in self-awareness. And poor Paula.

Impolite? It’s op’s house and it’s Christmas. I can’t believe the fawning and scraping taking place to accommodate Paula’s rigid needs! It’s Christmas - everyone should be welcome.

I would be extremely disappointed in any friend of mine that was prepared to leave any woman in a motel alone on Christmas Day just so they could have maximum air time and attention. I certainly couldn’t see them in the same light as before. Joan is not the problem here, Paula is the problem for being such terribly hard work in the first place.

Why op is even having to think about this IS very telling, my friends would automatically say more the merrier for Christmas - they see each other every week - that’s more than adequate. I am sure Paula will survive not being centre stage for one afternoon! Jesus wept.

We'll have to agree to disagree.