DD (21) plans to get married and move abroad

[Thatonesong]

My DD is 21, she's a lovely, sociable, smart girl. She studied sports science and is now doing her MSc in Sports and Exercise Medicine. She entered into a new relationship in January, the man is 28 which to me feels like a notable age gap at 20/21, but I appreciate others may feel differently. He is from the Middle East and has made it clear he plans to move home. He proposed to DD at the start of the month, which felt quite fast since they'd been together for maybe 10/11 months at the time, but we congratulated her, she seems happy and airing our opinion is only likely to cause upset.
Tonight DD came over for dinner, without her partner. She told us she is planning to get married in the summer and then move to his home country with him in the autumn after she graduates. I asked if she has a plan for once she is there career wise and she said maybe some sports coaching but he can afford to support them both. This felt like a red flag to me as I don't want her to be fully reliant on anyone else to just survive. She was also honest and said having children is high on her priority list and she "doesn't want to wait until she's older and too tired to be an active mum". I felt a bit gobsmacked tbh, but just said she should spend some time thinking about if this all what she really wants or if she is doing it because it is what he wants/feels pressured.
Since she left I haven't been able to stop crying, my partner thinks we need to have a harsher word with her, note the risks more plainly, such as difficult getting a divorce, likely not possible to have children there, break up and move back here with them (due to The Hague Convention) etc.
I know she is an adult and entitled to make her own choices, but 21 still feels very young!
AIBU to be so concerned? What do I do?

I think your daughter needs to read some of the responses on here OP X

It feels quite a shame that she has been doing so well with her academic studies (reaching Masters level) in her specific area, and that she might then lose momentum by giving it up to be suppprted by him and maybe do ‘some sports coaching’… It might be wiser to first get herself set up with a relevant job after she finishes her Masters, before taking time off to start a family. That way she would be more likely to do well in her future career.
Of course having babies is the most amazing and important thing, but I fear that if she does it so soon then she might never go back to her career path, or at the very least will have lost that chance to take first steps in her chosen work area.
Could you take this angle with her? x

I wouldn't be pussy footing around this and taking the whole 'she's an adult it's her choice' approach. I'd be telling her straight that she is a complete idiot and laying out exactly what could happen.
So many academically intelligent girls with their good degrees just have zero common sense and are not streetwise at all.
Not your fault OP. You sound like a great mum and you mist be worried sick.

The risk with that approach is that you force her to choose and effectively push her away.

Keeping communication open and asking questions gives her more options.

@Thatonesong I really feel for you. No matter how intelligent and mature you DD is, this is a massive decision for a 21 year old.
If you actively object it may well push her harder towards the decision you don't want. I'd take the tack of 'Well, we want you to be happy but you know that the culture in Qatar is x y z which means a b c' etc etc. If she's determined to get married and move, you could suggest as she's so young she waits at least a year before thinking about children to make sure she's happy with the culture and lifestyle before taking a step that will probably force her to stay very long term. Ideally get the partner on board with this compromise if you can (taking the tack that DD needs to settle and have a support network locally before having a baby as it will be a big change for her).

or it will suck her into some common sense. Depends how bloody minded or brain washed she is.
I know that at that age if my mum had handed my arse to me on a plate like this I trusted her judgement and respected her enough that I would have sat up.

Of course make it clear that you will always be there for her but leave it clear that thee is only so much you will be able to do if she is in the hands of Arabic law.

That's a nice terrorist supporting country to go to

One possible way to tackle this is to treat the marriage very seriously with your DD. I would not be negative about her husband but talk to her seriously - adult to adult - about the fact that marriage is a very important step and she will be marrying into a very different culture and a culture that is very family-oriented and it wont be a breeze to make the marriage succeed, or for her to have a social life. She will be expected to become part of her husband's family (for better or worse). Especially as a mother in a middle eastern society, and especially as a women moving to a different country far away from her own family. However "westernized" her fiance may be at present, after he returns home he will return to many of his home values - that's just normal human behaviour.

Stress the importance of the families meeting each other before the wedding. I don't know a huge amount about the culture in Qatar but in all the middle eastern cultures I know about marriage is about families more than the individual couples and family's meeting it is part of the process for a "proper" marriage. It shows mutual respect, respect for them and also for DD, that you have all met and all approved. I would go a step further and if possible bring a male relative - DD's father or your brother. And if nothing else, hopefully it will (a) slow things down and (b) show DD what a big step this really is.

The questions about his family's status and whether he is a Qatari ciziten or not is something your DD should be concerned about. You could ask her and explain the implications. If she asks him and he gets arsey then that may give her pause for thought. Given what @SameIssue said I can't see why he is so eager to marry and start a family with her if he is a Qatari citizen, either way this haste does have some red flags.

I can’t really help, but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone - I would FREAK OUT in your shoes.
I hope you get some good advice here and are able to navigate this to a successful conclusion, whatever that looks like.
🩵🩵🩵 💐

Well, bully for you, but your experience is far from universal.

Hey, I live in the UAE. My friends (Aussie expats) just bought a house here and are having to do a separate will in the UAE l. It states in the event of my friend’s husband dying, that the two children they have will stay in my friend’s custody. At the moment, if her husband dies, custody of her children will default to her husband’s closest living male relative who can stop her from taking the kids anywhere abroad (e.g. back to Australia), stop her from living with the children, and basically being in control of all health / education / financial and lifestyle decisions of the children.

I’m much older than your daughter, married to a man from the UK, have had a good career for 10+ years, and I’m in a situation of being financially abused. It’s so slow and insidious. If she does go, make her set up a Revolut bank account before leaving. Without a job + salary certificate, it’s hard to set up your own bank account in GCC countries. Her partner can sponsor it, but it will be a dependent account (I’d still advise doing this as having local currency immediately available is going to be useful) and he could just as easily withdraw his sponsorship though if things went south. This is why I recommend a Revolut account before leaving that you also know the details to incase you need to send money quickly and for it to be all solely in her name. It’s also no fees for FX transfers, and Revolut are on the verge of disrupting the way the Middle East does banking making it more accessible.

I’ll likely be deleted but honestly I’d discourage her from marrying a Muslim at all, especially one who’s very keen to move to the ME.

The cultural differences are just too great and none of them are in her favor.

Get her a copy of Phyllis Chesler’s ‘an American bride in Kabul’ for one story of what can happen when you move to a very patriarchal country where women don’t have rights for marriage. Be clear you aren’t besmirching her fiance but that she’s putting herself in a context where any breakdown in the relationship becomes existential for her, and that’s a huge strain to put on a marriage. If I were a man in such a country I’d not want to put a woman I loved in such a vulnerable position - I wonder what he’d think if she asked him to stay in the UK for at least the first five years of their marriage.

Qatar is in many ways a really fab place full of excellent, friendly and lovely people but if things go wrong, because of the law there she will be fucked, that’s the problem.
if I was you I’d focus on that. it’s not about him, early marriage, Qatari people, her career, her choice to have babies so young, it’s literally that she could find herself in a situation where she can’t leave with her children if she wants to.

This movie and the book that preceded it are based on a true story. Different country and era but same concept. Women lose autonomy.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0102555/

MidnightScroller Taking someones passport and withholding it is abusive and probably illegal! I would be unhappy about this too ,however it's likely to drive DD apart from her Mum.She would be more determined. and would probably hesitate to call for help if she encountered problems late on.

Yes, this is certainly true. A citizen of any country, while in that country, is reliant on the authorities of that country. Even if you hold dual nationality, the authorities of the other country will not help you.
This is true ANYWHERE. I - and my children - are both French and British, so while in France we are considered French and while in Britain we are considered British. The authorities of the other country will not help us. However, the difference is that the ethos of France is closely aligned with the ethos of Britain. Indeed, this is not the case when comparing Britain and Qatar.

Yes, indeed. This is just the first step though as I understand it: the process of signing and implementation can be very long. There's the signing/theory and then the practice.

I think you have to be straight with her. Your daughter sounds a bit immature - weren't we all at 21, but even so, a proposal from a whirlwind romance would make most women think twice. She still needs your loving guidance and it's worth a tantrum now for (evidentially likely) pain later.

A young female relative of ours met a slightly older, wealthy Middle Eastern man at uni. It was exactly the same thing - he was intelligent, cultured, proposed really early on, and it seemed like he couldn't wait to whisk her off to his country. Thank goodness she broke up with him.

No, it's not ironic at all. You still made a ridiculous generalisation that does not apply to most countries. Most countries operate on a jus sanguinis basis - as I said.

Her University will have an Overseas Association to help foreign students settle in etc. Maybe your DD could make contact with one of the grouo and get the perspective of a woman her own age? To get a full understanding on how it is ?

Or visit his family for a month before wedding plans are made.

It’s a huge decision.

in qatar men can legally have 4 wives. ask her if she knows for sure if she will be his first wife - and how she would feel if he takes another wife as I am guessing its a status thing to have more than one wife.

The OP's daughter with UK citizenship should be able to access some consular support to leave if she wants to get out. Children with Qatari citizenship won't be able to. Don't think they do dual citizenship but I don't know.

Christ, no OP. Do your utmost to dissuade her ... however hard that may be as she's an adult, albeit a very young one!

I regret not saying more when my 22 year old DD moved in with her BF .. renting at first, then buying. I did express my concerns that it was all moving too quickly (BF was setting the agenda/pushing things forward IMO) ... it all went wrong and we're now picking up the emotional and financial pieces with her.

I regret not telling her exactly what I thought at the time .. it may have made no difference but it still needed to be said.

In your case OP, there's far more reason to be very truthful about your concerns.

It depends; it's a complex area. While in Qatar she is considered Qatari and the British consulate will just redirect her back to those authorities. The consulates are not set up to support people who are citizens of the country they are in.
Generally they don't do dual citizenship in Qatar but it's different if a child is born with both. They may have to choose between the two nationalities when they are 18, is my understanding of the situation.