Council tax is a c**t

[Upholstery]

What kind of a tax doesn't take account of how much money you have? It's all just a bloody con.

The vast majority of council tax is spent on care costs and staff pensions (around 70%-75%). They're nothing to do with how many people live in your house.

Only a tiny proportion is spent on bins and education.

The €200 is the TARI and the TASI, which cover rubbish collection, street cleaning, running of tips and the recycling van that comes round. The TASI is stuff like street lighting, local road maintenance but not highways, things like fences along roads, and maintenance of road side ditches to prevent flooding. Things like policing, libraries, social centers are all taxed through income tax, with a no tax threshold of just five grand a year in income. Everyone pays some tax here.

Same here. Bought a modest three bed semi, now in Band D because it was originally a 2 bed. Next door is massively extended- 4 beds, 2 bathrooms and they are still Band C. I appealed to get us dropped to Band C as I didn't understand how the system works. No luck. It's our biggest outgoing

what you probably mean is why someone living in Liverpool band D pays a different amount to someone living in Milton Keynes band D. It is dependent on what your local area needs funding for.

Most areas probably need generally the same services; but the main reason why wealthier areas pay less for the same banding is simply down to maths. If Band D is meant to cost - i.e. bring in to the council - the 'average' contribution per household, it naturally assumes that there will be roughly as many homes under that average as over.

How many Band A properties are there in Knightsbridge and how many Band H properties are there in Toxteth? Simply, the bands are only a differential, not an absolute; so the more people there are who are paying higher-band charges in the area, the less each of them will proportionately need to pay for the council to get the same funding, in spite of that higher band.

Council tax is much crueller. You think you're home and dry with your net pay and then bam! a huge chunk of it gone, you just have to hand it over, the same amount as the person next door to you regardless of what either of you have in terms of net pay.

Yes that’s what I said, that council tax is nothing to do with the number of people living in a property.

Every time a political party has come up with suggestions to address the cost of elder care (which in practice is needed by a minority of people in old age, most of whom fund themselves) the voters throw up their hands in shock. Its tagged a “dementia tax” or similar whichever party produces the plan. The reason politicians have failed to address the problem is us - the voters. Property based taxes are universal, even if they are implemented in different ways in different countries. Would you be more in favour of a local income tax (also a previous suggestion rejected by the voters)?

I do find PP suggestions that the poll tax would be fairer to be laughable - a head tax taking no regard of income and hitting lower earners in overcrowded housing much harder than high earners who can afford large houses without overcrowding. It was iniquitous which is why people from both left and right took to the streets to march against it.

Most local budgets are overwhelmingly social care (not all of which is for elderly without means), SEN and sizeable chunk to public sector pension contributions. Precious little is left for any other services. Meanwhile incomes from business rates in many areas have been hit by online shopping over the past couple of decades. That shortfall also has to be made up.

I’m fascinated to know which LA demands to know your home’s banding before allowing your DC into the library story telling. I’ll remain sceptical without a link.

I do get my bins emptied every week but I’m beginning to think I must be in one of the last parts of the country which has good waste and recycling services.

Education and Social Work have the highest budgets.

No, indeed; that's a key issue. Just because they are assessed as being Band E in no way guarantees that that is a fair assessment.

I agree with PP that the problem isn't really with the concept of CT per se - however much people grumble about it and maintain that it only pays for emptying the bins and nothing else whatsoever, I think most people realise that the funding has to come from somewhere - the problem really is with the slapdash and often grossly illogical banding assessments.

But you still benefit from refuse collections, the police, council services, libraries etc etc, so why shouldn’t you pay?

You have simply made that percentage up.

90% of the council budget goes on statutory responsibilities, predominantly adult and child social care. Yep, home care for the elderly and people with disabilities, fostering and adoption service, social workers looking after safeguarding cases. A placement for a single adult with learning difficulties can cost £100,000.

And bins.

Yeah this practice they have of just making up a value for everything built since the tax came in is nonsense. Especially for social housing tenants - none of the properties have ever been sold.

Around here (outer SW London) I doubt there are many granny annexes - the vast majority of plots wouldn’t be big or wide enough. But it’s an expensive area so masses of houses have both kitchen extensions and loft conversions - still usually cheaper than moving to a bigger house.

Our area is one of the most expensive CT areas in the country, yet barely a mile down the road is one of the cheapest.

The last budget said that send deficits were going to be absorbed by central government from 2028/29 so changes are afoot.

I think is clear that we need a 'national social care service' centrally funded instead of LAs doing it. But it needs to somehow work better than the nhs does with a sensible funding model.

I understand the need for local delivery solutions based on reality but it doesnt work pretending to fund it from council tax.

Yes, of course it is.
And we getting fuck all for that.
In my own country, great healthcare, clean, timely public transport, police force, that is
actually an armed "force", bins emptied every day apart from Sunday.
"Council" tax twenty times less a year on average.
Oh, why don't I fuck off back home?
Once certain human obstacles disappear, I'm out of here for good. 👍

We pay more in the village where there are less services than in the local town, for the same banding. It is a bit strange how the areas vary so much.

It's not cruel. Total hyperbole.

Its also entirely predictable. Everyone knows that Council Tax exists and needs to be paid.
The banding of every house is public knowledge so you can plan even before you agree to rent/buy the house.

In fact, that transparency is one of the benefits of a property tax. It's incredibly easy to hide the size of your earned income. It's very hard to hide what size the house is.

There are lots of larger houses which have been improved, extended, etc, which are not moved up to the higher bands because councils don't bother upgrading valuations, whether people move or stay put. Councils are therefore missing out on loads of income.
In my village (commuter-area so very expensive) there is a large house in huge grounds, with stables, tennis court, swimming pool, etc. It was originally a small bungalow but has been extended and improved by several different owners over the past 20 years. It sold recently for £6 million and is still in council tax band E, yet our 4 bed family house is in band G.
Completely unfair, as in my mind - if you can afford to pay £6 million, you can afford to pay more.
But also, I know this house because it's just up the road, however it can't be the only one to have slipped through the net, there must be many big properties which should be paying more.
If councils made sure each house was in the correct band, they would receive more income to pay for the services we all use. Maybe it could be linked to planning permission/building control or similar when houses are extended or improved?

And what model of public funding do they use?

How is the tax raised to pay for these services?

London council tax is so much cheaper than rest of the country, which does feel unfair

I agree with this. I pay more than my neighbour. Who has extended their home significantly. They pay less ?! If the renovation is significant the planning office know about it and should be easy enough to recalculate the council tax. All part of the renovation/extension. Which he did himself. Employed nobody.
No it isn't envy before someone says that. It is the nonsense that Councils are wringing their hands for money, and here is an option on a plate that they refuse to do anything about.

I also think that, even when focusing only on bin collections, some people only seem to consider the service of somebody taking your bin, emptying it and then returning it to somewhere in the vague area surrounding your home.

There's a huge infrastructure needed for them to manage and deal with those thousands of tons of waste - it costs a huge amount more than just actually collecting it. Even those saying "I'll just take it to the tip myself, then"... those tips aren't run and all of the tons of deposited rubbish got rid of by magic pixies.

Yes, and people in the lower tax bands, are very unlikely to own their own home, therefore will get their care home for free.

I didn't say they don't work, I said that people in higher bands are more likely to work.

But, to be honest, people in lower council tax bands are less likely to work than those in higher bands.

Exactly. Buy a house, rent a house - the council tax band is entirely discoverable.