People sat in first class with out a ticket

sickyicky · 2025-12-07T18:15:05+00:00

This weekend I booked first class train tickets so I was more likely guaranteed a seat. I suffer with chronic illness and new the trains would be packed due to football match and Christmas shopping. Both time trains have been busy and on the way there it was standing only. No one in first class had a ticket eventually someone gentleman gave me a seat once I had to sit down on the floor. I would have asked for a seat from someone who didn’t have a ticket but I was on my own and first class was full of drunken footballers shouting. On the way back train was full but had enough seats for everyone but that meant people sitting in first class. The train carriages haven’t been declassified so I can’t claim the extra back I paid and as train was so busy train guard couldn’t get through to check tickets. On the train out we had to change and an elderly gentleman when telling some footballers that this was a first class carriage did they have a ticket was told to F off. What do you do in these situations. I’m on the train heading back now so if train guard does come and check tickets and these people aren’t ask to move I will nicely ask how I go about getting the 60 pound difference in ticket refund.

unfairwork · 07/12/2025 18:18

honestly if they are violent and aggressive telling people to "eff off" then i'd leave it. Not worth risking a fight

tilypu · 07/12/2025 18:22

No-one in first class had a ticket? Really? How do you know this?

Sidebeforeself · 07/12/2025 18:30

Did you not get a seat reservation with your ticket?

cestlavielife · 07/12/2025 18:32

Speak to the guard

taxguru · 07/12/2025 18:34

cestlavielife · 07/12/2025 18:32

Speak to the guard

On ultra crowded trains, you don't get to see the guard as they simply can't get through the train, so don't even try and don't check tickets etc.

Heronwatcher · 07/12/2025 18:35

Did you not get a reserved seat?

Honestly I think you either need to ask nicely for a seat, or ask a conductor, but in my experience trains are like a war zone at the moment- I blame Christmas! The reality is that on such a busy service it was probably likely that first class would be decommissioned in any event. I think unless you get a reserved seat you have to mentally be prepared to stand at the moment, or travel off peak.

writingsonthewall · 07/12/2025 18:37

If they’re being intimidating you can text BTP on 61016 and they will notify the guard on your train.

Guidanceplease20 · 07/12/2025 18:38

You had a ticket and being 1st class you would have a reservation? Or maybe it was a open ticket. Just ask the guard. Or, yes, just live with it if its a football crowd.

I dont know how you can be sure they didnt have tickets? Maybe not first class if they know they can get away with it on a match day but they probably had a regular ticket to get in and out of the station concourses. Bit you cannot know.

I have to say Ive found football crowds generally quite happy if very loud. The last one they did the conga right through the train and were quite entertaining. But I wouldnt have crossed them!

Wobblylegs1 · 07/12/2025 18:38

This is just ‘one of those things’. I’ve had the same happen to me in the past. Life isn’t always fair, sometimes we come off worse. Live and learn, if this is a frequent destination for you, check match days next time and avoid trains at pre & post match times.

TootsMaHoots · 07/12/2025 18:41

I think it’s just one of those things. People have to get on the train if they are going somewhere and it’s the train company that is at fault if they didn’t put on enough carriages or trains. it’s not ideal but if I needed to get to a event and there was only space on the first class compartment then I’d get in it.

My dd also got the train on Saturday with football supporters and she said they were chanting the whole way. They are just ordinary people though. I’d have asked for a seat.

MissyB1 · 07/12/2025 18:44

But surely with a first class ticket you had a seat reservation? Even on a standard ticket I always reserve a seat. If someone is in that seat you politely point out that you reserved it.

taxguru · 07/12/2025 18:46

MissyB1 · 07/12/2025 18:44

But surely with a first class ticket you had a seat reservation? Even on a standard ticket I always reserve a seat. If someone is in that seat you politely point out that you reserved it.

Even apparently "normal" people often refuse to give up their seat when someone comes along who had it booked, so it would be pretty amazing for beer fuelled football fans to give up a seat, even if pre-booked.

taxguru · 07/12/2025 18:51

TootsMaHoots · 07/12/2025 18:41

I think it’s just one of those things. People have to get on the train if they are going somewhere and it’s the train company that is at fault if they didn’t put on enough carriages or trains. it’s not ideal but if I needed to get to a event and there was only space on the first class compartment then I’d get in it.

My dd also got the train on Saturday with football supporters and she said they were chanting the whole way. They are just ordinary people though. I’d have asked for a seat.

Train companies barely ever put on more trains or more carriages regardless of what's going on. They don't have spare carriages sat in sidings these days, nor the staff available to put on more trains (nor the paths on the tracks either). It's like a military operation for them to put on an extra train as it has to be worked through the track path and station availability as well as ensuring enough staff working to run it and all that has to happen weeks if not months in advance.

Weekends are particularly bad as trains on many routes finish early on Saturday evening (West coast main line!!) meaning there's often only 1 or 2 "Normal" trains taking football supporters home after a match far away from the home town, and the train companies never put on extra trains nor run trains later than a normal saturday (even when there are later trains on other days). Sundays are always a different flavour of nightmare with trains starting later in the morning, finishing earlier, and with sparse service in between.

Best to avoid using the trains when there are major events taking place that day and if you can't, then you have to accept they're going to be rammed.

OneGreySeal · 07/12/2025 18:51

taxguru · 07/12/2025 18:46

Even apparently "normal" people often refuse to give up their seat when someone comes along who had it booked, so it would be pretty amazing for beer fuelled football fans to give up a seat, even if pre-booked.

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Do they really? I travel for work and always reserve and I always have to get people up. Never been told no. Eye roll and a huff perhaps. One time a couple pretended they couldn’t understand me and I just told them loudly and firmly to get up and move. They soon got the idea.

Most trains have the reserve thing at the top.

Only exception being when reservations get cancelled then it’s everyone for themselves.

Op if you had a seat reserved you should have gone to your seat and politely asked them to move.

babasaclover · 07/12/2025 18:53

tilypu · 07/12/2025 18:22

No-one in first class had a ticket? Really? How do you know this?

Was thinking this myself - how do you know they didn’t have a ticket? You do actually sound completely classist assuming they don’t have a ticket and the old man telling them they’re in first class? I’m sure they knew just cause they like football doesn’t mean they are poor - quite the opposite in fact

why on earth would you go on a train with a football match - worst nightmare (I say this as a disabled person) but just the chaos of it plus Xmas - fuck that

MarymaryquiteC · 07/12/2025 18:55

'sitting' not 'sat' 🙄

TootsMaHoots · 07/12/2025 18:57

taxguru · 07/12/2025 18:51

Train companies barely ever put on more trains or more carriages regardless of what's going on. They don't have spare carriages sat in sidings these days, nor the staff available to put on more trains (nor the paths on the tracks either). It's like a military operation for them to put on an extra train as it has to be worked through the track path and station availability as well as ensuring enough staff working to run it and all that has to happen weeks if not months in advance.

Weekends are particularly bad as trains on many routes finish early on Saturday evening (West coast main line!!) meaning there's often only 1 or 2 "Normal" trains taking football supporters home after a match far away from the home town, and the train companies never put on extra trains nor run trains later than a normal saturday (even when there are later trains on other days). Sundays are always a different flavour of nightmare with trains starting later in the morning, finishing earlier, and with sparse service in between.

Best to avoid using the trains when there are major events taking place that day and if you can't, then you have to accept they're going to be rammed.

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Yes, I can imagine. When I went to the Fringe in August from Newcastle there was a train to Edinburgh every ten minutes so that might have given me a false sense of what can be done. Saturdays in December must be so busy.

RichardMarxisinnocent · 07/12/2025 18:59

OneGreySeal · 07/12/2025 18:51

Do they really? I travel for work and always reserve and I always have to get people up. Never been told no. Eye roll and a huff perhaps. One time a couple pretended they couldn’t understand me and I just told them loudly and firmly to get up and move. They soon got the idea.

Most trains have the reserve thing at the top.

Only exception being when reservations get cancelled then it’s everyone for themselves.

Op if you had a seat reserved you should have gone to your seat and politely asked them to move.

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I assume you've never been on a train which was so overcrowded that you can't get anywhere near your seat to be able to ask the person in it to move? If I can get to my seat I always politely tell anyone who is in it that it's mine and they do move, even if grudgingly. But more than once I've got into my carriage and found the aisle so jam packed full of people that there is no way of getting to my seat halfway down the carriage (unless I take up crowdsurfing).

AnneElliotfanclub · 07/12/2025 19:12

Not all trains have seat reservations. Southern don't.

snoopythebeagle · 07/12/2025 19:14

How do you know they don't have tickets?

Lots of trains end up double-booked. I've seen it happens loads.

Kijhlhgdvjk · 07/12/2025 19:16

Crowded train; people spilled into carriage which you suspect they didn't have ticket for.

Absolutely no problem with that.

I suspect that you're a snob.

sweeneytoddsrazor · 07/12/2025 19:23

Proper prior planning is what is needed. You knew there was Xmas crowds and a football match so maybe planned to book an earlier train to avoid the crowd a bit.

EsmeSusanOgg · 07/12/2025 19:25

unfairwork · 07/12/2025 18:18

honestly if they are violent and aggressive telling people to "eff off" then i'd leave it. Not worth risking a fight

You message the British Transport Police number. Usually advertised on the train. Let them know the issue and which train you are on. The troublemakers are often removed at the next bigger stop.

Bambamhoohoo · 07/12/2025 19:28

I think it depends on the line/ journey. I live on a commuter line- first class is frequently decommissioned and you can’t reserve seats. There are no guards.

its different if you’re on ie… London to Manchester

EnglishGirlApproximately · 07/12/2025 19:35

I get it OP I travelled on a line this weekend that was massively overcrowded with football crowds and Christmas shoppers and it was horrible. Standing room only, very claustrophobic and honestly felt unsafe. I've been on crowded trains plenty of times but I've never seen anything like this.
The problem is that all of the people who 'shouldnt' have been in first class were probably there because was the only place they could get to, and if they've paid for a ticket and have somewhere they need to be they aren't just going to not get on the train.
I paid £110 to stand up for 2 hours despite having a seat reservation, there was simply no way of getting to my seat.