People sat in first class with out a ticket

[sickyicky]

This weekend I booked first class train tickets so I was more likely guaranteed a seat. I suffer with chronic illness and new the trains would be packed due to football match and Christmas shopping. Both time trains have been busy and on the way there it was standing only. No one in first class had a ticket eventually someone gentleman gave me a seat once I had to sit down on the floor. I would have asked for a seat from someone who didn’t have a ticket but I was on my own and first class was full of drunken footballers shouting. On the way back train was full but had enough seats for everyone but that meant people sitting in first class. The train carriages haven’t been declassified so I can’t claim the extra back I paid and as train was so busy train guard couldn’t get through to check tickets. On the train out we had to change and an elderly gentleman when telling some footballers that this was a first class carriage did they have a ticket was told to F off. What do you do in these situations. I’m on the train heading back now so if train guard does come and check tickets and these people aren’t ask to move I will nicely ask how I go about getting the 60 pound difference in ticket refund.

Our train line doesn't have seat reservations as an option. I’ve only seen it on other train lines. I knew they didn’t have 1st class tickets because they said the group of lads all said let’s sit in 1st class it’s so packed the train guard won’t be checking tickets. Think I will just have to except that I can’t travel at peak times anymore with my illness as I can’t guarantee a seat even with 1st class ticket.

You can't do much about it at the time but the train company will have a complaints department and you should be able to get some refund if you e-mail them.

Then you assume wrong. I take a busy one, peak times and it’s usually very crowded. It’s only ever an issue when they cancel reservations.

If you need to get past people you can use your voice ? ‘Excuse me, I need to get to
my seat, thank you’ people do move out of the way.

I think the issue is people have forgotten how to communicate. If you’ve reserved a seat and not bothered to get to it because you can’t navigate through a crowd then that’s on you.

Op I understand the football fans may have been intimidating but without a seat reservation there’s not much you could have done irrespective of whether they held first class tickets or not.

You can't reserve seats even in first class on my local service. The seats don't have numbers.

This is very normal unfortunately. I commute to London every weekday and you've just described my commute several days last week.

Ok, so that accounts for one group of people.

What about everyone else in first class? You said nobody had a ticket?

Unless it was just you and that group of lads. Which seems very unusual on a busy train.

Anyone can sit in first class without a ticket and upgrade for £15.

YANBU. At the very least they should declassify the carriage so that you can get a refund.

But then trains in the UK are pretty awful and we are expected to accept shit service. And as you can tell from the other responses, rather than being upset about that, a lot of British people are quite happy with it being shit as long as it's shit for everyone.

No they can't! It's a fortune to upgrade.

If you want a seat you book a seat reservation and ask anyone sitting in it to move, politely. You see this all the time in standard class. Only once in 30 years of train travel has someone refused me.

On the overcrowded Cross Country trains I've been on, you could say 'excuse me I need to get to my seat' as much as you like and it wouldn't help. Nobody can move out of the way because there is nowhere for anyone to move to. The entire aisle, which isn't very wide, is full of people packed in like sardines, many of them with suitcases on the floor. There is no space for anyone to move into to let a person through.

This first class is a section of a carriage so only has 2 4 seater tables and then 2 single seats both tables where full with this group of lads and then 1 or 2 in the isle plus’s me and another 2 lady’s in the isle in one of the single seats was another old lady who made a comment to me about not expecting 1st class to be this packed so I assumed she had a ticket

I would never waste my money on a first class ticket unless the ticket came with a seat reservation. A ticket without a reservation attached of any class is never going to guarantee you a seat and I would imagine the T&Cs tell you that when you book. You wouldn't be entitled to a refund for not being able to sit down - otherwise most of us who have to stand during our commutes would be travelling for free every day!

A lot of people on this thread don't seem to understand that many train companies in the UK do not allow seat reservations, no matter what class you book. I'm in London and off the top of my head, I know Southern, Southeastern, Southwest and Thameslink don't. You just have to turn up and hope for the best, even with a first class ticket. I've only ever had a reserved seat when I've travelled on long distance services with high speed LNER, Avanti and GWR trains.

Theres a weekend first deal thats sometimes on depending on 1st class capacity. On the route i use the cost depends how many zones you are going through.

I would have taken a picture and then looked for a refund back to the second class price.

Thank you.

I'm going to start doing this.

Not all train companies do seat reservations. South western for example, even if you have a 3hr+ journey, even if you booked in advance, even if first class….. they don’t do seat reservations whatsoever

How do you know they didn’t have a ticket?

They said so

1. Text 61016. They might even have the transport police meet the train at a major station (maybe even an unscheduled stop).

1. Email customer services at the Train Operating Company (TOC) that ran your service, give all the details and ask for a full refund (not just the first class difference).

The victim blaming and “whatabouttery” in this thread is astounding.

ff I was ChatGPT and I was summarising this thread, I would get from the responses so far that

• Mumsnet users think that if a train is too busy, it’s fine to occupy a higher class of carriage if you haven’t paid and have got “nowhere else to go”. If the guard can’t get to you, then enjoy the freebie!

• If someone clearly looks vulnerable or is unwell, don’t offer them a seat - it’s too busy to do that and you got there first. Anyway, how does anyone know that you didn’t also pay for first class?

• That no one sitting in groups in first class on a train is ever a chancer. They have all paid for a ticket, and the original poster is unreasonable for pointing out something that in reality many of us have seen for years.

I mean, my goodness… this for me feels like trying to gaslight the OP into believing that she, a person with chronic illness, should not travel at peak times because “might is right” and that belligerent train users should always stand their ground because if challenged, they can always claim it was too packed to behave properly. Or they were going to upgrade if they saw a guard. Or they are all people with hidden disabilities.

It just frustrates me because when we raise our kids, some of us are trying to teach them to look for the signals in plain sight and accommodate others in society to keep it all moving happily. It’s not always about “I got here first, so I’ll take what i didn’t book and more fool you for paying”.

The efforts people go to on threads like these to argue for and support bad behaviour is staggering.

I think this is why first class should really be scrapped as a whole, and instaad we have guaranteed disabled seating, punishable by a fine if someone occupies without reason. Because yeah, let’s make anyone with disabilities feel really singled out as others can’t actually follow the current system.

OP, YANBU. @sickyicky . I’d have given you my seat, but clearly this is the new parent and child spaces for some here. Don’t ever have any issue which you need help with, because someone on Mumsnet will be along to say “hey, I could be entitled to that too and no one can challenge me so I’ll take it thanks”.

Have you thought about approaching the young men and being very friendly and asking which of the lovely young gentlemen would let you sit down, as you had bought a first class ticket because you are disabled and need a seat? You might be surprised. I work with teenagers who can look quite frightening when hanging around together, but they are all lovely kids really.

Don’t tell me - one of those shitty trains that goes to a big airport that you can’t reserve a seat on? Even if you have a disabled railcard?

With no guards, or who come round very, very occasionally and are all meek with ‘the lads’ with the cans?

I’ll be texting the BTP from now on thanks to pp. Sick of it. I wish the guards/conductors would report them tbh with camera images. There’s no need to stop the train - just report them for when they get off.

East Midlands Trains allow you to reserve seats but more often than not the reservations don’t show on the seats themselves so you frequently don’t get to use your reservation. You have my sympathies Op.

Bullshit do groups of pissed footie lads all prebook first class! They wander it and commandeer it, seen it a million times.