People sat in first class with out a ticket

[sickyicky]

This weekend I booked first class train tickets so I was more likely guaranteed a seat. I suffer with chronic illness and new the trains would be packed due to football match and Christmas shopping. Both time trains have been busy and on the way there it was standing only. No one in first class had a ticket eventually someone gentleman gave me a seat once I had to sit down on the floor. I would have asked for a seat from someone who didn’t have a ticket but I was on my own and first class was full of drunken footballers shouting. On the way back train was full but had enough seats for everyone but that meant people sitting in first class. The train carriages haven’t been declassified so I can’t claim the extra back I paid and as train was so busy train guard couldn’t get through to check tickets. On the train out we had to change and an elderly gentleman when telling some footballers that this was a first class carriage did they have a ticket was told to F off. What do you do in these situations. I’m on the train heading back now so if train guard does come and check tickets and these people aren’t ask to move I will nicely ask how I go about getting the 60 pound difference in ticket refund.

Obviously the train operators could not give a shit. Pack em in like Sardines and make loads of money.

I'd have smiled nicely and asked person iny reserved seat to let me sit down

Many of the train operating companies are now government owned, so there's not a profit element, more of the public sector/civil service mentality of not giving a shit about the service users.

Do this and they might organise for BTP to get on at one of the stops. It's helpful for the conductor - they don't usually have any support on board and are in a vulnerable position when the trains are rowdy. I don't blame them for not intervening.

In 30 years you’ve never travelled with a train company that doesn’t do seat reservations? That seems unusual, given how many of them are around.

OP, it annoys me as well. I used to book first class for similar reasons i.e. have to have a seat or I can’t travel, and my local train company doesn’t do reservations. I’ve stopped now as the first class bit was always full with people not having the correct ticket and I have more chance of a seat in standard.

Do they sound like the sort of people who would give a damn about seat reservations?

No but you might be able to alert staff etc. Anyway I made that point ages ago and the thread has moved on since then

Is your condition bad enough that you would feel it appropriate to book passenger assistance? They should help you get a seat.

Honestly if I’ve paid for a standard train ticket and it’s packed and standing room only and there were seats in 1st class I’d sit down. If a guard told me to leave I’d leave.

If someone else was quizzing me about whether or not I had a ticket I’m not sure I’d be answering their questions but i wouldn’t be rude. If someone was standing and saying they’d paid for 1st class I’d give them my seat. 🤷‍♀️. But I wouldn’t stand if there were spare seats.

And I say this as someone who normally pays for 1st class.

If you travel in first class a lot you know who has a ticket and who doesn't.
I have a first class pass through work and it drives me nuts when people just sit where they want.

I would do this if they were being abusive.

OP, this happens all the time. On most lines these days, including my local one, you can almost guarantee that nobody will be around to inspect your ticket so all the rule breakers travel in first class. This is one of the reasons people don’t pay the extra to travel in first class. On intercity lines, where you reserve seats, along with your ticket, first class travel is much more sedate. In fact, if you book in advance, the first class fare is not usually much more than the second class fare and you often get a meal or drinks thrown in with it.

Now from this reply I know you have never done this!
I did once, when there was a very aggressive beggar in the train carriage and they told me to email them.

I was thinking this too.

I often joke I must look pathetic because I've never had a problem getting people to move/help with bags/find me somewhere to sit. I'm certainly not intimidating.
It's more often someone offers than I have to ask.
Often the young lads who look intimidating are actually pretty lovely.
If you keep it light, non-aggressive, the worst you'll get it them refusing, and the chances are someone else will overhear and offer. But I've never been refused when I've asked.

I remember one time with a friend's baby in the park. There was this group of loud, rather drunk lads messing around. Skin heads, leathers, the lot. Sort of group you'd cross the road to avoid. As they filed past me, me trying to keep us as small as possible so not to be noticed, one of them glanced into the pram and exclaimed "oh he's so cute."
They all turned around and admired him (with very modified language to what I'd heard as they approached) - he loved the attention and they really wanted to buy him an ice cream, but I said he was too young. They disappeared off, then reappeared about 20 minutes later with a hat they'd bought for him.

As my old headmaster used to say "a nicer boy you couldn't cross the road to avoid".

If they are aggressive or intimidating text BTP. They are normally quite responsive.
They wont care about no tickets.

I've never done it but I thought it was quite normal for people to sit in 1st class if the standard carriages are too full.

It's called hard luck. No way would I go o on a train knowing that lot were on it.
Everyone knows what football fans are like.

Not aire which train company you're on, but I travel with avanti and they announce every time that anyone wishing to upgrade to first class can go and sit at an available seat, it's £15 for the upgrade. I do it all the time.

on the contrary, I've inadvertently ended up on plenty of trains with football fans and whilst I wouldn't want my kids to hear what comes out of their mouths, they've always been friendly. sometimes too friendly as in they won't shut up and let me read my book but none have ever been rude to me and I would absolutely ask for a seat. I actually think as a woman it's probably easier.

but ops first class is odd. a few tables in a normal carriage with no seat reservations, how do they know they're not overselling first class?

if you can't reserve a designated seat op you either have to watch your times or use your voice

I've also inadvertently ended up on trains with football fans. On one, a group were chanting 'Get yer t*ts out for the lads' in front of a group of women. On another, they started a fist fight (the train was actually stopped to arrest one of them). Another time, a stand-off between passengers arose when some fans were making threats to women in the carriage and bystanders intervened. Aside from that, the times when they are just noisy and swearing are beyond irritating. There should be more robust policing of these situations, and passengers and staff should not be expected to put up with it.

When we see on the board in the railway station that the train is very busy, we often go and sit in the unreserved coach if there is one. HTH.

Perfectly middle-class people shouted at me on trains that I am making a scene by insisting on taking my seat. 😕 It is a free-for-all especially with split tickets.

It is sometimes the case that the train staff tell people to go sit in first class of the rest of the train is over crowded. Or they possibly upgraded the ticket on the train .

If you are really concerned, contact the train company but don't hold your breath for a reply

Sounds like it would mattered even with a reserved seat

How on earth do you know whether or not any of them had a ticket? Unless an inspector came round.

In future lovely book yourself assistance with network rail at the station, when you book your tickets. It’s free to use. You will be helped onto the train and off and guard will be notified you will be coming and generally staff will do all they can to save you a priority seat in situations where it’s declassified, if they have notice.

If people are sitting on the floor it’s declassified, the guard probably hasn’t announced or forgot to document as they are fighting fires (figuratively) elsewhere on the train. However do follow up with your compensation claim and contact the rail ombudsman after the final decision from the operator you travelled with, if you don’t get a part refund.

Yes as already stated BTP if people are being aggressive. Also social media eg twitter have a live help desk and will also contact the guard on that train.

Me and my sister went to see dua lipa in London this year. Train was an hour, she pre booked the train tickets & seat. A dude was sat there so I asked him to move, he moved up and I explained no these are our seats move pls. He then acted like he couldn't speak/understand English and pulled out a ticket (which was for the bus) to prove it was his seat. After I got really pissed off and shouted, we eventually found different seats. Entitled prick.