People sat in first class with out a ticket

[sickyicky]

This weekend I booked first class train tickets so I was more likely guaranteed a seat. I suffer with chronic illness and new the trains would be packed due to football match and Christmas shopping. Both time trains have been busy and on the way there it was standing only. No one in first class had a ticket eventually someone gentleman gave me a seat once I had to sit down on the floor. I would have asked for a seat from someone who didn’t have a ticket but I was on my own and first class was full of drunken footballers shouting. On the way back train was full but had enough seats for everyone but that meant people sitting in first class. The train carriages haven’t been declassified so I can’t claim the extra back I paid and as train was so busy train guard couldn’t get through to check tickets. On the train out we had to change and an elderly gentleman when telling some footballers that this was a first class carriage did they have a ticket was told to F off. What do you do in these situations. I’m on the train heading back now so if train guard does come and check tickets and these people aren’t ask to move I will nicely ask how I go about getting the 60 pound difference in ticket refund.

And 'knew' not 'new'!

Unfortunately it isn't like that on every line. The train I take regularly to my family for example - you can't reserve seats anywhere, there isn't a buffet car and I'm pretty sure there is no staff member except the driver - nobody ever comes to check tickets ever and definitely no cart bringing food / drink. Takes more than 2 hours as well so not a short journey!

I was on crowded train last month and people in first class with a standard ticket were being to pay £150 to upgrade or move. They moved.

oh I'm not suggesting theyre all gentlemen and angels , I don't doubt your awful experiences. but this "we all now that everyone who does X must be Y" is reductive and unhelpful.

op could have tried asking for a seat but she didn't.

I feel for you OP, you seem to have become the villain when you asked for guidance. You were entitled to travel and have your reasons for doing so ( the same as the football fans had theirs.)
You can’t be expected to plan your life around football matches. I’d go to the ticket office that sold me the ticket and ask for reimbursement of the upgrade value ( £60.00 is a lot of money).

I used to commute. When anything went badly wrong everyone would pile on a train that was going out, any carriage, just to try to get home. And at that point, you can forget about any classes of carriage. That is how it was.
On one occasion a man asked people 'do you have a first class ticket'. In all honesty I thought he was being a loon. The station was rammed with people. No trains going out bar the one we were all on. Nobody bar him gave a hoot what class they were or were not in. It was standing room only, everywhere.
I understand where he was coming from. But he needed to be a little more flexible in his awareness of the situation that presented ! We all knew it was first class. Normally, nobody without a first class ticket would have gone into the carriage. But the situation was far from normal. Think of a packed tube train.

This time of year I am afraid the trains are usually rammed. And I won't travel on one precisely for that reason.

What is awful and unacceptable is uncouth behaviour from dreadful adults. No excuse for that at all. At least in my experience people were civil to one another.
My father would never have behaved like that, nor my brothers. Truly grim.
You are right to avoid the situation as much as possible.
Also, I would seek a refund definitely. And report your concerns about your journey.

If you buy an open ticket how do they know how many will get on? It's annoying but unless we start saying you have to buy a ticket for a specific day/time then it is a guessing game.

Unfortunately, everytime I’ve come across football fans en masse I’ve been disgusted by their behaviour. I once got caught in a traffic jam as football fans emptied the stadium - banging on the car shouting and swearing shouting abuse at me, grown men behaving like 12,year olds! I can imagine the obnoxious nature of the people on the train., I’m sorry you had to deal with that.

Unless you physically checked their bags and pockets and went through the apps on their phone how on EARTH do you know who had a ticket or not?

Or are you just assuming football supporters wouldn’t have paid for first class tickets?

get off your high horse this happens all the time on over crowded trains and the staff allow it. Your complaint should be with the train company take it up with them

Or, simply don't use the train. I wanted to make more use of the train when I retired, but after being stranded at King's Cross on returning from long haul flights, twice, I've given up trying. The rail service is a disgrace. The greedy drivers and guards are committing employment suicide.

Train companies charge a fortune but don’t supply the carriages or staff to give people a decent service. Complain and ask for a refund, though they’ll probably refuse if they can get away with it, in the future don’t bother with a first class ticket - you’re just giving them more money for nothing.

I’d be concerned that the train carriages were so full people had to sit on the floor or stand…….imagine the carnage if there’d been an accident! Personally, I would complain and keep complaining until someone agrees to reimburse, apologise and ensure enough carriages are in use at necessary journeys.

On packed, standing room only commuter trains, people just want to get home, and will cram themselves in anywhere to make that happen. It would be a terribly inefficient use of space to have the first class carriage basically empty while people who didn’t manage to force their way into the standard carriages are stuck on the platform waiting for the next train. It’s an unwritten rule that once things get so busy to the point that movement around the train is impossible, people can use the first class carriage.

It suggests a level of naivety that you think standing room only trains are something to be shocked by. It happens day in, day out, year in, year out on tens of thousands of commuter trains around the country. I take standing room only trains every working day. And train crashes are - fortunately - essentially a thing of the past. There hasn’t been a major rail collision in this country since 2002, so we don’t have to plan around incredibly unlikely worst case scenarios.

Go by National Express?

And when they tell you to fuck off? Pray how do you politely deal deal with that?

A few years ago I was on a packed train and was standing up, it was full with a football crowd on ..I just said to a few of them I hoped their team won and DH and I were offered seats and then I was told why it was an important match. Some people were amazed at the fans reactions I always think being polite helps and it certainly did. I am a northerner and the fans were a London team.

I've travelled first class a few times lately including on incredibly busy trains and tickets have always been checked

If you book lner or through train pal you almost always get a seat reserved. I have a disabled rail pass and only once did I not get a seat reserved in first class

Many years ago when I worked in the centre of Leeds, the football fans were so bad that police had to board the train every time there was a match on. It was awful travelling on the train with the football supporters. This was the train I caught after I had finished work so not a late train either. There wasn’t any trouble as such but the atmosphere was very unnerving and this was with a police presence.
Nasty animals is the best way I can describe them.

I did that in an almost exactly the same situation. The BTP were totally useless.

Tickets are not routinely checked on most commuter lines. I commute every weekday and haven’t had my ticket checked in years.

Im in Scotland. Tickets are checked where I am and I have also had tickets checked on longer distance journeys. Glasgow to Newcastle. Glasgow to Liverpool. Glasgow to Aberdeen. I have made about 20 journeys over the last 18 months and my tickets have been checked every time

Do you get passenger assistance when travelling by train? I find them pretty supportive ( though not with your situation) and would expect they'd ensure your seat with a chronic illness.