If I see any more comments on Mumsnet of it's just a dog

[Lifeneedsaresetagain]

Do people not realise that for those who welcome them into the family they are part of the family. And if you have a dog and say it's just a dog, I'm not sure you should have one.

Likewise. I never see it in real life either and I know a lot of dog people. Nor do I encounter the frenzied hatred I see here on mn, or experience people crossing the road to avoid my dog.

I think, to a certain extent, all dog owners' reputations are suffering because of the recent trend for a significant minority of people to treat their dogs like babies/children. Taking them everywhere, including shopping. Dressing them up. Buying Christmas/birthday cards from the dog to other family members. Expecting people to accommodate them in their own homes. One of my SIL's just opens her car door and lets her dog run straight into our house, even though she knows I have a child with severe contamination OCD and two of us have allergies. Up until about ten, at most fifteen years ago, not a single dog owner made the assumption that we were ok with having their dog in our house. Now the assumption is 'love me, love my dog'. To be fair though, despite a severe dog allergy, DP is a people pleaser, so possibly there are mixed signals.

We didn't have a dog when I was growing up as my dad didn't like them, but I had daily, often prolonged, contact with dogs due to friends and family owning them. I wouldn't say I loved dogs in general, but I loved specific dogs. And if someone had said to me that their dog was a part of the family, I would have understood what they meant by that. The dog was very much loved and cared for and the family would be deeply upset when it died. Now if someone says that, it can of course mean this. Or it can mean that the dog is treated like a human being. So even on threads like this, not all dog owners mean the same thing when they say their dog is a member of the family. Taking dogs to shops and cafes isn't treating them like dogs in my view. Fair enough, if you're out for a walk with your dog and fancy a sit down and a cup of coffee or a drink in a dog friendly place, but specifically taking a dog to a coffee shop because you don't want to leave it alone for a couple of hours is bonkers. And probably not fair on the poor dog.

There are far more untrained dogs bounding around these days, and perhaps there is an element of dog fatigue. I started running a few years back and went from being pretty neutral about dogs to being totally and utterly fed up with them and their owners. But I don't see the point in some dog owners getting worked up about others seeing their dog as 'just' a dog. It doesn't matter what other people think provided you are not expecting them to bend over backwards to accommodate your pet.

It worked for other selfish, antisocial behaviours like smoking, so why not dog ownership ?

Well owning a dog isn't a selfish, antisocial behaviour. That's an opinion. Smoking was banned because of the associated health risks.

1. There are public places near me designed for people to walk their dogs off lead and we'll continue to do so. Our dog has been trained not to approach strange people and dogs - people are of no interest anyway.
2. What size/weight? Most dogs don't need to be muzzled and most of those that do will be.
3. Designated sections is up to the cafe/restaurant. Many don't allow dogs, so there are alternatives. We never take our dog to any except very occasionally a beach cafe that strongly advertises it's dog friendliness and sells dog bowls of food.
4. I'd be all for a license. Mandatory training is probably impractical but advice could be given. We clean up after our dog.

No-one is impacted by our dog other than us and dog owners we know do take proper care and responibility for their dogs.

IRL have never seen the intense dog hatred that shows up on MN

I disagree, I find it deeply disturbing that a human being would in theory choose a dog over a human baby. I'm sorry if that insults you but that's my view and it won't change.

You're quite right. There is something very, very wrong indeed with any adult human who does not automatically want to protect human babies, it is a natural instinct and one of those which measures our humanity.

If the choice is any animal or a human baby, the only normal choice is the human baby. Yes, normal is indeed a thing.

It is the most basic human instinct and not to have it makes someone weird and possibly dangerous.

I don't find it disturbing that someone would favour a dog they have reared since it was 7 or 8 weeks old, but I do find the question irrelevant and nonsensical.
Why would I feel insulted? If you find my views disturbing that's your problem.

I suppose most people envisage the dog owner in question walking away cradling a tiny lapdog in a blanket, but for those of us who have a dog too large to pick up and carry, it is a pointless thing to stress about. For me, I suppose I'd pick up the child and expect my dog to make her own way. No choice involved really.

If dog owners feel victimised, try taking your goat to the cinema. Imagine my surprise when not everyone shared my love for Ambrosia being there. She's a lovely goat and has never butted or bitten anyone in her short life.

Frankly I don't see the point but whatever floats your boat, or should I say goat?

Do they feel victimised? And, what??

People who think dogs are equal to children have a mental illness.

I have a mental illness and I find your comment offensive.

Put it another way - people who think children are equal to dogs have a mental illness.
Why do you find it offensive? Mental illness comes in many guises from mild depression to full blown psychosis. I’m sure most people with a mental illness won’t think dogs and children are equal.

You were the one who said I was being offensive 😵‍💫

It can be selfish and antisocial.

If you smoke, you’re selfish because your eventual healthcare needs - caused by your own habits - is funded by the rest of us.

If you have a dog, and it makes a mess on public property (piss and or shit) - you’re selfish because cleaning it up is funded by the rest of us.

If you smoke in a crowded room, your unpleasant smoke & discarded cigarette butts cause an actual risk / hazard for the rest of us. Antisocial.

If you bring a dog into a public place, you impinge on those with allergies / fear of dogs, the dogs run up to people unsolicited and cause trouble, and in some cases cause injuries. Antisocial.

So stricter controls would absolutely help mitigate these negative externalities borne by non-dog owners and funded by us all.

I agree that mandatory training would be difficult but it could be a multi-level thing, with level 1 basic being mandatory, proceeding to voluntary levels 2-6.

Dogs could wear QR codes on their collars / muzzles to allow anyone to check their last training course, with badges or whatever to proudly show what good boys/girls they are for having completed the more advanced courses.

This is absolutely not unreasonable - a fairer way to impose dogs on wider society.

Owners clean up dog mess.

Re allergies. Are we now having stricter controls on nuts, diary, plants etc etc ( add in massive list of possible allergies) into public places?

I can think of all sorts of anti social activities there should be stricter controls on- kids on scooters and iPads without headphones being two.

In my experience, owners clean it up if they think someone’s watching. Plenty do not, which is why the streets are covered in it.

Many do pick it up and bag it - but then inexplicably leave the bag behind or even more bafflingly, hang it in a bush.

All this needs cleaning up. Dog bins need both providing AND emptying, and I have to pay for that - I’m paying for someone’s hobby effectively.

To be fair, you have to have food at a café. You don't have to have dogs. They're a totally avoidable allergy in an indoor place that isn't someone's house or a vet or a dog groomers etc.

It’s up to the owners of said cafe. They want the much bigger custom from dog owners than the few with dog allergies so they make cafes dog friendly to attract dog owners.

Dogs aren’t in non dog friendly cafes.

None of the streets in our local towns and cities are covered in it. That’s down to your council to enforce.

Re bags in bushes often they’re collected on return.

It's offensive to use the term "mental illness" as an insult, which you seem to be doing. Can you not see that? You shouldn't need it explaining to you. We can't brand everyone as "mentally ill" purely on the basis that their views don't coincide with our own.

I’ll happily sign your petition to get these rules in place if you link to it. Bit dubious on how the street cleaners are going to clean dog mess while avoiding spit, chewing gum, litter, vomit etc but you’ve probably already worked that out.

Who pays for the council to enforce that ? That’s exactly the point I’m making. Antisocial dog ownership now requires my council to spend money dealing with antisocial dog owners.

There are more bags hanging on bushes than there are dog owners underway in the little woods near my house. Most just leave it there.

Take it with you immediately, it does not belong in the bush. Your problem.

No I didn't.
I asked why you were being horrible and insulting to people on here last night, given that you say you have a dog yourself.

Where we live most dog people do use the poo bins. There are several poo bins in our village, they are very well used and get emptied twice weekly. We rarely see poo on the pavements locally and I can't remember the last time I saw a poo bag hanging in a tree.
Maybe it depends where you live, but here (affluent north west village), almost everybody cleans up and dog etiquette is very good, with most dogs being well controlled.
I think we're very lucky, I don't doubt that there are problems in some areas. But certainly around here, I don't think antisocial dog behaviour is a problem.

edited for punctuation

I think dog owners seriously underestimate the amount of bad feeling created by dog shit. It really is disgusting and some areas, including local beauty spots, are ruined by it. Dog owners on MN tend to scoff at this and imply that the rest of us have some sort of neurotic obsession - we don’t. It’s just gross and antisocial, and it’s very obvious that at least some of the “I always pick up” brigade are lying. As for the ones who admit they leave it hanging in a tree “to collect later” - WTF? Take it with you, you dirty sods.