To think *some* independent shops really aren't helping themselves...?

[BeansAndNoodles]

I'm massively supportive of small businesses, I try to use them as often as I can. We are lucky to have a high street with lots of independent shops. However, my trips to town are limited due to being short of spare time, plus parking costs a fortune unless you limit it to the free 90 mins that you get in the supermarket car park, etc.

But time and time again I go to one of the independent shops to find them randomly shut. I get that they probably only have one staff member so it's hard to stay open if anything out of the ordinary happens, but it's still so flipping frustrating.

The last few trips to town have ended with me ordering stuff online or going into one of the chains because the independent shops I wanted were closed for no apparent reason. The independent health food shop is the worst, they close for an hour at some point between 11 and 3 for lunch but it's not the same time day to day and they don't say on the closed sign what time they'll be back, so if you get there and it's shut you don't know if it's worth trekking back to that end of town in 30 mins or not. I tend not to even bother checking now and just go straight Holland & Barrat instead. Several more shops seem to rely on posting that days opening hours on their FB page, but thats hardly a reliable way to tell people if they're open or not! Last week I had an afternoon off and took a trip to a different town specifically to go to a shop that stocks work by local artists to get some cards and gifts, only to find it closed with no indication of why or if it was opening late or what. I checked their FB page while stood outside but nope nothing. Later that day (3 hours after their stated opening time) they posted that they'd decided to open later for the Christmas lights switch on and that they hoped people would come and support them

Anyway I've just seen yet another slightly passive aggressive plea from one of the owners of the worst shops for this, complaining how quiet business is and telling people to use them or lose them yada. Well yes I totally agree but more often then not when I try to use them they're not bloody open!

I've known loads of them who only opening a business in order to claim tax credits (and now Universal credit). They're not bothered about making a profit big enough to live on. Their intention is to cover their costs and justify enough hours to claim maximum benefits. The hours worked can include admin, marketing, etc., so they can hit the "magic" number of hours with opening very few hours. It's endemic amongst car boot and sunday market "traders", so some also rent a cheap run down shop that costs little in rent and put in a load of cheap/free stock (i.e. cheapest possible sweets or novelties, or second hand clothes or if food, cheap crap from Tesco to make into sandwiches etc). They open few hours to keep overheads low, i.e. no electric/gas if they're not open, etc. The sheer number of people running "fake" businesses back in the noughties to get tax credits was insane, the new universal credit rules have stopped a lot of it, but lots still do it.

@AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta @Crikeyalmighty Yes- definitely not a way to run a business. The moaning on facebook in particular make it look like they want the lifestyle of working together, setting their own hours, being congratulated for making a difference/caring about the planet etc and want customers to pay so they can do that but they don't really want the hard work that goes with running a business. They have also recently been advertising for volunteers to help them and the tone of the adverts is that they believe they are selflessly running the shop to save the world and want local people to do their bit too.
The sad thing is, I buy lots of things that they sell and could be a really good customer but I'd rather buy it from someone else online to avoid having to guess when they'll be open and risk being sneered at or shamed on FB for daring to go at the wrong time and/or not look like the right sort of person for the shop. I'm sure I can't be the only potential source of income that they are alienating

They’re looking for volunteers?? Cheeky buggers!

I agree.

Aside from only being open for 3 hours a fortnight, in a prime location, some vendors dont do themselves any favours by advertising their allegiance to contentious political causes. You would have to be a bit daft not to realise that this is a divisive tactic that will alienate a section of your potential customer base.

I am fatigued with all the pass-agg posts on social media bemoaning the collapse of small businesses. One in particular sticks in my mind where a farm shop closed down after 2 days of trialling selling fruit and veg. The blame was squared at the awful customers who didnt support the business. However, they hadnt advertised this new venture and expected folk to somehow know it was happening via telepathy.

The best one was a shop owner being seen by potential customers in the shop whilst being, unexpectedly, closed. The response to the potential customer's confusion was a highly aggresive fb rant along the lines of "I am stock taking so if you dont like it you can naff of" type attitude. To be fair, it is probably a better idea to stock take at a time when you would expect the shop to be shut. In any case, a polite explanation would have sufficed rather than an entitled, angry diatribe.

That really takes the cake!

Re: that last one you mentioned, you should’ve commented politely and given her your feedback! It might explain a little of her. She may have absolutely no idea it’s even an issue

some vendors dont do themselves any favours by advertising their allegiance to contentious political causes. You would have to be a bit daft not to realise that this is a divisive tactic that will alienate a section of your potential customer base.

I told a story about this on page 2. Independent maker and seller I know said that everyone who disagreed with her on certain divisive issued was a disgusting piece of shit (or words to that effect) and she didn't want to do business with them. Folded...

Where is this place? If it’s near me then I’ll be avoiding!

Having read through this thread, I think the advice to small businesses can be summarised as follows:

• only open a shop if you can really commit to what's involved: regular, reliable opening times and cover where necessary. Don't even think about it if you're on your own.
• plan opening times for your customers' benefit and convenience rather than your own.
• don't expect to be successful without a USP - if you're just another outlet selling readily-available items at inflated prices, don't bother.
• think hard about creating the right atmosphere in the shop/cafe. Don't harass customers by watching them like a hawk and don't talk too much - just a cheerful greeting and a smile is best, then at least pretend to be occupied doing something else.
• remember: you chose to start a business. No-one forced you to do this. You must make it work and if it doesn't, it's 99% likely to be your fault, not that of the customers who didn't come. If people aren't coming, or are coming in and not buying, that's down to you - you must be getting something wrong. The customer isn't wrong.
• Your business isn't a charity. The public don't have a moral duty to support you. You must make them want to buy whatever it is you're selling.

God knows how many hours I spent today reading and chuckling at this thread… Thanks OP

My friend loves a very specific candle handmade in a shop in the Cotswolds. Online, it said all candles were sold out. Emailed the shop, very politely to see if they would have any more made for Christmas (no point in hanging on if not)

Owner emailed to say they weren't making any more but I could have the ones from the shop shelves sent to me if I wanted to cover postage.
Candles and postage paid for by me in about 3 seconds. One very happy customer and I certainly will buy him some more for his birthday. A brilliant example of an independent shop.

THIS!!!

Slightly different, but similar thing happened to DH and I some 7 years ago.

A leaflet dropped through the letterbox (around early May) saying 'wheelie bin cleaning, only £3.00.' They said they come every 4 weeks to the grey general-waste bin and every 4 weeks to the green bin. (So they'd come every 2 weeks.) 5 minutes it took, and they did quite a few in our road.

It was a male/female couple (in their 40s) doing it, and we got both bins cleaned 2 times each, (so they came for about 2 months...) It reached early July, and they just randomly stopped coming. 3 weeks went by, 4 weeks, 5 weeks, 6 weeks! Now it was late August, and the bins hadn't been cleaned for almost 2 months. The grey bin was stinking after a few weeks as it was a hot summer. So we just cleaned it ourselves (with the hosepipe...) Should have done that to start with to be honest!

After we'd done it, we popped it in the back garden behind the (6ft high, locked gate,) in case they came, and tried to clean it!

This one mid September day the buggars turned up, and knocked on our door at midday this one collection day, and said 'where's the grey bin, we've come to clean it.. I said 'don't bother, we're doing it ourselves now, you haven't been for 2 months, all through the hot summer. The grey, general-waste bin was stinking.'

The man said 'well we have 5 different parts of town to cover and 100s of wheelie bins, we've been very busy. AND me and the missus have 3 kids and a home to look after...' I said 'well why say you'll come 2-weekly then? And then not turn up for 2 months? Why not just admit you can't cope with your workload or can't be bothered to come?' He just scowled at me and walked off. I was expecting slashed tyres on the car, or paint chucked over the car to be honest, but he (and is wife) never returned! They never came back to our part of the town, so most people must have told them to jog on!

Off topic but people clean the inside of their bins?!?

Only my little food waste bin. Even though the waste is bagged it breaks down and gets a bit slimy and smelly. It's really small so I just use a kettle of hot water, swill it round and chuck.
My neighbour borrowed my garden waste bin, then took it to his place of work to both discard the waste and gave the bin a lovely clean. That was nice.
The general waste has never been cleaned and doesn't need to, it only gets non smelly waste that can't be recycled and is bagged (kitchen bin).

God...that was dull...I'm going to bed!

We have an independent outdoor clothing shop which has a great window display There’s a really nice coat in the window so I called to ask their opening times and to to see if they were joining other shops with a late night Christmas night. Oh no was the reply sounding quite horrified but ‘ we are thinking of opening on a Wednesday now’. 🤷‍♀️

I think a couple of our local businesses may have been reading this thread! Two of them have posted their Christmas opening hours on SM this week along with a lovely message about everyone being welcome to pop in before Christmas.

Sounds familiar!

I get that shopkeepers and craftspeople have bad days like anyone else. But a lot of them do seem to be in a huff a lot of the time - bizarrely, with the strangers they rely on for their income! Also I think there's a formula that the cuter the wares, the more belligerent the seller 😄

Good for them, it's peak selling time for them!

A few years ago we had a local butcher having a strop on social media. He was moaning about the fact he was opening early and people still weren’t using it. Someone very politely commented that she really didn’t want to deal with meat at 7am. Anyway it all went a bit bonkers. It always struck me that he was asking for feedback then being cross at the people who politely replied.

Im a vegetarian so it was all just irrelevant to me.

It's the Dolores Umbridge effect. Have you ever met a truly sunny and joyful, life loving person with all that shit hanging around?

It just seems to me that a lot of this stuff is fixable. It's no big deal to put your opening hours on the door (and stick to them).

A few months ago there was a thread about cafes and what people liked and disliked about them. and my dislikes are a tiny jug of milk with a pot of tea that will do about six cups, and not saying whether the cafe is table service or counter service. Some people got really shirty and were talking about how hard it is to run a business. I am sure it is. but is it really that hard to say whether someone needs to go to the counter to order - or to give people enough milk for their tea?

This is exactly it. It should be made into a chater and every independant shop should have to sign up bedore they open for business!

I've long advocated for there to be some kind of test/training/control for ALL self employed/small businesses. It's not just shops and cafes. Tradesmen are a nightmare too, as often are small car garages/self employed mechanics. It's not just customer service, but also things like the legalities, tax, etc. So many tradesmen havn't the foggiest about VAT - i.e. charge it when they're not registered or don't charge it for "cash in pocket" jobs. Some other countries have a lot more regulation around self employment to improve standards. We're very lax in the UK, hence the crap customer service, widespread tax evasion, black economy etc.

The more cutesy the stuff, the more likely a) they’re very emotionally invested in it (like the woman in SATC who made purses after a break-up then got very angry when no-one wanted them) or b) they have the people skills of a geranium.