To think *some* independent shops really aren't helping themselves...?

[BeansAndNoodles]

I'm massively supportive of small businesses, I try to use them as often as I can. We are lucky to have a high street with lots of independent shops. However, my trips to town are limited due to being short of spare time, plus parking costs a fortune unless you limit it to the free 90 mins that you get in the supermarket car park, etc.

But time and time again I go to one of the independent shops to find them randomly shut. I get that they probably only have one staff member so it's hard to stay open if anything out of the ordinary happens, but it's still so flipping frustrating.

The last few trips to town have ended with me ordering stuff online or going into one of the chains because the independent shops I wanted were closed for no apparent reason. The independent health food shop is the worst, they close for an hour at some point between 11 and 3 for lunch but it's not the same time day to day and they don't say on the closed sign what time they'll be back, so if you get there and it's shut you don't know if it's worth trekking back to that end of town in 30 mins or not. I tend not to even bother checking now and just go straight Holland & Barrat instead. Several more shops seem to rely on posting that days opening hours on their FB page, but thats hardly a reliable way to tell people if they're open or not! Last week I had an afternoon off and took a trip to a different town specifically to go to a shop that stocks work by local artists to get some cards and gifts, only to find it closed with no indication of why or if it was opening late or what. I checked their FB page while stood outside but nope nothing. Later that day (3 hours after their stated opening time) they posted that they'd decided to open later for the Christmas lights switch on and that they hoped people would come and support them

Anyway I've just seen yet another slightly passive aggressive plea from one of the owners of the worst shops for this, complaining how quiet business is and telling people to use them or lose them yada. Well yes I totally agree but more often then not when I try to use them they're not bloody open!

I agree with this. I don't care if you're open for 47 minutes every third Thursday but if I turn up during those 47 minutes on the third Thursday the shop has to actually be open.

Yes, this. ^

Also, off topic slightly, but some people in my village which is 3.5 miles or so from the little market town, (and the 4 other villages within 3-4 miles of the market towns) make crafts and cakes and jewellry (not gold or silver just dress jewellry/novelty jewellry,) and little toys, and ornaments and so on. Sometimes they go to events in the market town, sometimes it's events in one of the villages. They are nice, (the items they sell) but really quite expensive. A cupcake is at least £3.25, and a small/slim slice of Christmas cake in a piece of clingfilm is around £4.00. A pair of novelty earrings in the style of a bauble or Santa or snowball is £7.50 to £9.00, and Christmas decorations for the tree are usually £4.50 to £6.00 each!

You can buy all this in normal shops on the high street for half the price, sometimes a third of the price. (Main/well known shops - not independent ones...) Also calendars of the area that people have had printed go for £15.00. And little home-made knitted/handmade clothes cost about 2-3 times more than they would in a well-known clothes shop.

I didn't go to the Christmas Fair in the Village Parish Hall yesterday, because I knew that at least 10 people from the village would have stalls there with overpriced cakes and crafts, and I feel bad if I walk on by and don't buy anything.

I already went to a Christmas Fair in the market town 2 weeks ago, and one of my neighbours who lives 3 doors away had a stall with cupcakes and slices of cakes on it, and they were £3.75 to £4.50 each. I felt obliged to buy something, (as I'd have felt bad if I didn't!) £8.00 for 2 cupcakes! And they were quite small too. Literally 2 bites. DH and I had them after our evening meal, and had to have a mince pie each afterwards, as we were so unsatisfied! 😆

I do 14 busy hours weekly . The same 14 hours that I have always done. I promote my goods on social media and people can put things away until the can come and try on. If it’s 2 weeks until they come then that’s fine as due to my limited hours I have to be flexible in order for my business model to work. In 16 years I have been lucky as I have never had to leave the shop due to any unforeseen circumstances.

There is a local cafe to me. They do an amazing Sunday lunch, but the rest of the time I think the cafe struggles. Lots of posts about how they're struggling etc/use it or lose it etc. Ran by a couple in their 50s ish.

I decided the other week to call in and support them. I arrived to a guy in front of me calmly asking when his food would be ready, as he'd already been waiting an hour and had come back. He didn't shout, he was lovely about it. They'd got a young lad helping on the counter who started saying things like "we can only go so fast, one chef is ill, if you want to go back and help then feel free etc etc.". The guy didn't deserve it at all. Another bloke walked in behind me and had obviously had the same issue, and just said he just wanted a time. young lad again commented on all the people in the cafe waiting, so tough couldn't give him one. (There were 5 people waiting). Both guys cancelled ordered and walked out. I got to the counter and asked if I could have a couple of takeaway dinners. I was told maybe in an hour if I wanted to come back. When I queried the "maybe" I was told if there was enough food. They were doing what they could and couldn't do anything else.
I left and went to Maccys instead. Never again.

I went into an independent cafe near me recently and asked for a coffee, they gave me a menu and asked if I wanted food. No just a drink, thanks, then when I went to leave went to pay and say thanks and I said it was a nice cafe, I had not been in before. I was told maybe next time you could try some food.

I'm not sure if I will go back as usually can just afford a coffee, to be honest.

Yes which is why your business is likely successful. You are open a specific number of hours and commit to them so that customers can totally rely on the fact that when they show up, you are open- just as you promised you would be.

They arent turning up only to find that you've popped out for some exercise, or to walk the dog, or to go to the bank, or to get some fresh air, or to top up your tan in the summer, or to go get an ice cream, or to go to the garage or pick up your dry cleaning etc etc

I mean WTF are people thinking? we cant all just down tools on any whim and leave work when we feel like it to do random shit- you wouldnt be able to do that in a paid job let alone in your own business!

The only independent shop I use regularly is my local Asian supermarket open every day of the week from 8 to midnight, across Xmas and all holidays. No social media presence at all, no lectures on using or losing, just efficient and friendly service from hardworking people.

Oh, come on. People in real jobs can’t nip out on a whim for those purposes. Shop owners need to either hire cover, or do those tasks on the day of the week their shop is closed.

My post was a response to someone saying the owner shouldn't have a lunch break at all. I wasn't suggesting a free for all where they'd leave the shop on a whim whenever they wanted nor like someone suggested having a 2-3 hour break! Nothing wrong with having a fixed lunch break that the owner sticks to every day and which the customers know about as per the published opening hours. I was just explaining why a shop owner may have other things that need doing meaning they couldn't be in the shop for a full 8-12 hours per day every day, but clearly some posters think it's entirely reasonable for an owner never to leave the shop at all and never to close at all!

You said this:

I can't imagine the majority of posters on here don't actually leave their workplace at all if they are full time and stuck in a shop/office all day.

And we are saying that actually no, plenty of people don't go off for a wander. Short lunch breaks, working on an industrial estate, plenty of shop managers eat in the staffroom upstairs in case they are needed to authorise a refund or deal with a complaint.

Ooh good god no! People travel to my shop. It would be disrespectful to not be open.

We find that if we don't have the door wide open even in the bastard rain no one is brave enough to come in! We love all our customers, even the browsers

That isn't at all what posters have been saying. I would suggest rereading the thread.

Then you didnt read the thread properly. Noone was saying shop owners arent allowed to eat lunch. Or that they should work 24/7.

We are saying, that if you advertise your opening hours then you cannot just decide randomly to ignore that and pop out when you feel like it and still expect customers to be loyal to you. Plenty of us have had the experience of some indie shop owners doing this.

Many shop owners have a Monday off and open Tues- Sun for example. Monday is plenty of time to go to the garage or bank or whatever and still be open for a good 8-10 hours the rest of the week.

I work in an office from 8.30- 5.30 Mon - fri for example. I have to exercise either before or after work and I have to take my car to the garage on Saturdays. We all have to arrange our lives around the hours we work- its hardly unusual.

I am not able to just leave work whenever I feel like it to get stuff done so I dont expect business owners to do that either.

Eating lunch while staffing the till is hardly a major deprivation. If the alternative is alienating customers.

I’m not a shopkeeper but in a 40-year career, 95 percent of my lunches have been eaten at my desk.

I was responding to someone who said shop owners should just eat their lunch in the back of the shop and never close. Heaven knows how they think the shop owner could go to the loo!!

I agree with you - and @CoffeeCantata . I just simply won't go into a small, independent shop on my own, as I HATE it, because there is almost always only one staff member, and yes, they do watch you sometimes when you're looking around the shop. I know they don't mean anything by it - probably - but it's a bit unnerving, and I don't feel comfortable. Even if they're not watching you, I still feel awkward because I feel bad if I'm just looking around and I don't buy anything.

I do know this one woman who used to live near me in the Midlands, and she left our town and moved to a seaside town and opened a little gift shop. It is a lovely little shop, and she sells some great stuff, and it's not expensive, but when we go to this little town and go into her shop, (which we do twice a year,) I always feel obliged to buy something. 😬 I spent about £30 that I really shouldn't have spent back in September on a couple of dreamcatchers, a windchime and a few little gifts for the adult DC.

I know my example there ^ is a bit of a different scenario, but it's a bit of an example of how it's hard to not buy something sometimes. If my old neighbour wasn't in the shop (like it was a day off,) I very likely wouldn't buy anything - most of the time.

I know right. I went to our mechanic the other day (he, his cousin, and a friend run the garage,) as I needed a pair of new windscreen wipers. It was 1pm (I wasn't sure what time he and his 2 partners had lunch,) and I could see he was alone and eating a sandwich.

I said 'oh I'm so sorry, I'll come back in an hour.' He said 'no it's OK. It will only take me a few minutes to get a pair of new wipers off the shelf and pop them on for you.' And he dropped what he was doing and did it. Took 3-4 minutes.

Happy customers always come back. (I mean I would have gone back to him anyway, but some people would have gone elsewhere and he would have lost the sale..... if he had said 'I'm having lunch come back later...')

Assuming there is a toilet on the premises, it takes 2-3 minutes? Nip back when no customers are in the shop, would be my advice.

I don't think operating as a retail proprietor is a suitable occupation for people who prioritise creature comforts and flexible working hours.

Oh yeah, I think all of us have experienced something like this. It's very jarring and irritating. Why do they do it?! Most people want to be left alone to just look at things at their own pace.

This is why, sadly for these independent shops, most people will just go to big chain stores. I can try dozens of items on to my heart's content in Tesco (F & F) or Asda (George) or Morrisons (Nutmeg) and on the occasions I go to New Look or Peacocks... I spent an hour and a quarter in Tesco a couple of years ago, (November time,) trying about 15 different outfits as I was going to 2 weddings in the Spring of the following year...

No-one batted an eyelid, and I got 2 different outfits (well most of the outfit(s,) and went home happy, and they got a sale from me!

A pp made a similar comment about Waterstones... They have some cute nooks and crannies in the one I go in, and I sometimes spend 20-30 minutes in there looking around. No-one bothers me - ever.

@SleafordSods I go to a lovely dance /excercise class once a week - it’s a monthly subscription and the lovely owner ( who i know has around 12 different groups here in Somerset/wilts) works so so hard and has built up a team around her - she constantly posts positive threads, books Xmas party’s , boot camps/weekends - I don’t think she stops, late 20s too . I never see her post negatively , she will post the ‘bring a friend along for free trial ’ messages instead .

Yeah, and the guilt trippy adverts outside...if you're selling overpriced tat or more than elsewhere has got the same thing you can't expect people to shop there...!

Agree about the hovering. It's so counterproductive, you wonder what they are thinking.

That crafting/artisan/supplies makery I mentioned, the woman is such an aggressive upseller. If I pause for a moment to look at either a finished craft item or a pot of paint or whatever, she swoops over and in a really loud voice suggests "That would make a great Christmas gift for your bestie!" or "That color is being retired soon, you had better snap it up while you can!" or "Are you working on a particular project? Do you need XYZ too?" or "have you used this product before? here's a color chart, here's a booklet, blah blah" before I can even think straight.

I get that she has to proactively try to survive but interrupting my musing and train of thought isn't going to boost sales. Sometimes I have just left when she won't let me alone to ponder what I need for my next furniture refinishing task, or whatnot.

If someone upsells to me I either iust leave or never go back. I can’t believe it actually works.
If you want to interact then do it at the till or if I speak to you first.

Ive stopped going to a lot of cafes as I find the food so inadequate and overpriced. I went to one with my friend and nearly paid £10 for a tiny panini and a small coke in a freezing room. I was starving when I went in, and I was starving when I went out.

Noted …. If you come into my shop I will speak only when spoken to.