To think *some* independent shops really aren't helping themselves...?

[BeansAndNoodles]

I'm massively supportive of small businesses, I try to use them as often as I can. We are lucky to have a high street with lots of independent shops. However, my trips to town are limited due to being short of spare time, plus parking costs a fortune unless you limit it to the free 90 mins that you get in the supermarket car park, etc.

But time and time again I go to one of the independent shops to find them randomly shut. I get that they probably only have one staff member so it's hard to stay open if anything out of the ordinary happens, but it's still so flipping frustrating.

The last few trips to town have ended with me ordering stuff online or going into one of the chains because the independent shops I wanted were closed for no apparent reason. The independent health food shop is the worst, they close for an hour at some point between 11 and 3 for lunch but it's not the same time day to day and they don't say on the closed sign what time they'll be back, so if you get there and it's shut you don't know if it's worth trekking back to that end of town in 30 mins or not. I tend not to even bother checking now and just go straight Holland & Barrat instead. Several more shops seem to rely on posting that days opening hours on their FB page, but thats hardly a reliable way to tell people if they're open or not! Last week I had an afternoon off and took a trip to a different town specifically to go to a shop that stocks work by local artists to get some cards and gifts, only to find it closed with no indication of why or if it was opening late or what. I checked their FB page while stood outside but nope nothing. Later that day (3 hours after their stated opening time) they posted that they'd decided to open later for the Christmas lights switch on and that they hoped people would come and support them

Anyway I've just seen yet another slightly passive aggressive plea from one of the owners of the worst shops for this, complaining how quiet business is and telling people to use them or lose them yada. Well yes I totally agree but more often then not when I try to use them they're not bloody open!

I cringed when I read the pp who was told by a shopkeeper about the rage he felt towards customers who browse but don't buy.

Jeez - what do they expect? I have stopped going into these independent little shops unless there is another customer in there already. I HATE the way their eyes bore into you as you look around. It takes all the pleasure out of the experience and inhibits me from buying. In many shops (not just little independent places) I will go in several times and buy possibly half the time - not every time. I want to see what they've got, see any new stock, go away and consider, and then decide to buy or not. That's perfectly reasonable, but yes, some of these people think they're a charity and that it's the customer's duty to keep them afloat.

I might not buy THIS time, but if you're nice to me I may well come back regularly and buy. If you make me feel I have to buy every time I come in, I'll be giving you a swerve, thanks.

Yes!!, this is why I dont enjoy browsing either. In an independent, its often deadly quiet, all the attention is on you and my heart always sinks when I realise there is nothing of interest to me because it feels rude to just leave straight away. I always do the "thanks" thing as I leave too as a PP had mentioned because it just feels so awkward.

But then I think, good grief, I am not obliged to buy something here and why should I if there is absolutely nothing that interests me?- I work hard for my money too, and I deserve to spend it on something I actually really want.

Thats why places like Waterstones are so much more appealing - you can browse until your heart's content with noone watching you, staring at you, monitoring you, and you can leave without feeling you have to bloody apologise for not buying anything- a much more relaxing shopping experience. Also, online is even more relaxed! you can do it in your PJs and can even read the first few pages of a book via the "read preview" bit.

We have 2 very nice shops in our village. One that sells lovely birthday cards and small gifts - the other sells antiques.

They are open for 2 days a week only - I mean why even bother???

Obviously the owners have the shop as a 'hobby' and don't need the money. And no - they do not sell online as well.

Ridiculous and frankly, a waste of space.

I live in Cornwall and pretty much the entire place is like this.

Independent shops, cafes and restaurants that are open and shut willy nilly, provide terrible service when then do flip a coin and decide to open, then moan and whinge about ‘Emmets’ being rude and locals get the whole ‘use it or lose it’ guilt trip.

There’s a lot of people here who seem not to like hard work and have a bloated sense of entitlement.

We used to have an independent toy shop that were absolute buggers for this. Never opened when they said they were in the morning and randomly shut for periods in the day or just for the whole day.

I stopped going to them because it was easier to pick something up in another shop. They didn’t last long after they started with the random closings so I presume everyone else started to go elsewhere too.

Independent hops really need to be in it wiyh their SM these days and keep their customers fully informed.

I run a gallery/ gift shop. We open every day apart from Monday and don't close for lunch. We do find trade drops dead from around 430 and sell virtually nothing after 5. One thing I hate is the woe is me begging videos. It's not compulsory to set a business up.

We are 40% up this year (year 2) albeit from a low start

There are some great independent shops and I’m happy to support them and pay a little extra. There are also incredible ones. I went in one near me with a friend who wanted a look.It is an expensive boutique. I didn’t buy anything as it was far too overpriced or nothing I wanted.
The sales assistant insisted on commenting on every single item I glanced at. Ooh we have that in several different colours; brown, grey, beige and green. What size are you? Well I don’t want to reveal to all and sundry what size I am thanks. I’m quite capable of looking for my own size.
Ooh that jumper is really popular, we’ve sold a lot of those.
Me: oh after looking at it, it isn’t what I’m looking for.
Sales assistant: what are you looking for?
Me: I’m just browsing thanks.
Sales assistant: we have this jumper here, it comes in brown, green and black all with this enormous donkey on the front.
Me: no, I don’t want anything with a pattern on.
Sales assistant: what about this one?
Me: no I don’t want 3/4 length sleeves.
Sales assistant: pulls another random jumper off the shelf and thrusts it at me.
Me: actually no. The only colour I’m considering is winter white or cream. Must be plain. Long sleeved and not a high neck of any description,
Sales assistant: well we don’t have any plain cream or white jumpers in. We do have this one in lime green though. Or this one in burnt orange……
You can try it on. What size are you…….

There's a shop a couple of towns over from us that specialises in a necessary set of items - being vague as it's notorious locally and I've had this rant recently in real life!
When you need something it stocks, you need it now. You could buy most of it online, but some items are specific to that shop. It always closes for 'lunch' but that lunch break could be anytime between about 10 and 3. It is never the same from day to day. It's not all that convenient to get to, so you drive there, pay for parking, walk up a hill...and find the dreaded closed notice on the door. There is always a vague return time specified - 'back between 2 and 2.30' - but it's hit and miss as to whether that actually means sometime after 3. I have previously rung up when I was in the area to check something was in stock, said I'd be there in 15 minutes, and got there to find them closed. WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME?!!!! I'm fairly sure the owner does it on purpose.

@Sparklesandspandexgallore

Ugh, I will immediately leave any shop that does this to me. I know what I want and I like and I know what size I am.

I dont need someone harassing me, trying to get me to buy a hideous lime green blouse with puffy sleeves when I came in for a plain white t shirt

Same sort of thing where I live. Not exactly antiques, but pre-loved furniture usually acquired through house clearances. Some of it she sells as-is, some is upcycled. She is only open 2 days a week but she spends time collecting and renovating the stuff she sells, so it's not possible for her to open more days unless she pays for an employee. I've no idea how much money she makes but she's been going a couple of years now so it doesn't look like she's a total washout. She does advertise on social media too, which I think is a good way to attract sales. I think her prices are reasonable without being too OTT; this area isn't known for having loads of overpaid 30-somethings with vast amounts of spare cash to burn.

The card and gift shop works on a similar model. She makes a lot of the items herself, and sources most of the rest from other locals. She does craft fairs so the shop is usually closed at weekends. She can't have much of a markup on the sales so needs to rely on volume but so far it seems to be working.

I wonder if local councils could help small independents by reducing business rates? It's so unreasonable to expect small businesses to pay the same as large chains.

I wonder if local councils could help small independents by reducing business rates? It's so unreasonable to expect small businesses to pay the same as large chains

They already do- many small businesses qualify for small business rate relief

Most of the cafes and well established indy shops keep good, professional hours near me and are considered reasonable price wise, although we have one very good gift shop and it tends to eventually see off any attempts at competition! It is the best stocked and best priced. Some places sadly do fail but they're often very niche or expensive and just burn themselves out. It's a tough market.

We did have one place that was a bit like stories upthread though. There was a local indy bookshop near me that was a bit of an institution. The lovely owner retired and sold the business to two younger women. Initially they did ok. People were thrilled to see the shop survive and hours wise etc they stayed reliable, I can't fault them on that, but their attitude plus the rise of Amazon eventually killed them.

They entered a shrinking market and then acted like they were missionaries bringing the gift of literature to the great unwashed. They were snooty, they were unfriendly, they knew best. They were faintly patronising and any attempt at conversation with them felt like a judgement. They scowled if you tried to use a book token - which they were set up to take- despite you maybe spending £70 or so along side it. They had aggressive signs up spilling their "use it or lose it- Amazon is the work of the devil" message. Amazon was quicker, cheaper and didn't talk back.

They eventually asked locals to invest in the shop to save it. I believe they didn't get that many takers - again, partly the fact that online competition made them a poor bet and partly the fact that they were rude; so I think a lot of people just wouldn't deal with them. They did find a particular edition of a book me and dropped barbed anti amazon comments as they sold it to me a week after ordering, for quite a bit of money . They could sense I'd turned to them because I'd struck out by myself. I was a student at the time; I didn't have the time or cash flow to have them do that for every book, nor did I need the attitude. Amazon, Abe books, uni second hand and a couple of orders from Waterstones (which I had to travel to the next town for) got me through the rest of my course and I was able to find every other book I needed without having to go back to the snotty bookshop.

I agree. I have one of those near me and the amount of moaning, pleading and guilt tripping on social media has put me off ever going back there. The woman who runs it doesn't advertise her events or schedule properly and half the time the place is either shut completely, shut for a private event or full. My personal favourite is she runs events for preschoolers age 3-4 at times clashing with times when most of them are in preschool, well, guess why it's dead then?

Too many people have an attitude of running what suits them how it suits them regardless of what the market needs. I absolutely agree that's a hobby not a business then.

I love a good independent shop but I absolutely agree with this. Big businesses will close branches at the drop of a hat in a town where they're not being used and that has massive ramifications for jobs and wellbeing in those towns.

We have a clutch of independent shops in town run by people who also have family commitments and don't want to work the full week. They have synchronised their opening hours and are consistently open at that time so if you go to that small bit of town they will all be open and you can shop.

I think there have been a lot of films and series that have sold running your own shop and opening when you want to as charming and quirky and part of traditional village life, and that some indie shop owners don't really get that this is a fiction and not what real people actually want.

We have the same with a couple of local businesses and charities too.

One woman started up a baby class and her SM quickly descended into posts about her numbers of attendees being low and how her classes would have to stop if numbers didn’t pick up.

No posts at all about the lovely time the attendees were having or when the classes actually were or inviting you to go along.

Is your pet shop mine as I had a similar conversation?

Agree with a lot of this. I run a small and new care company and the office phone defaults to my mobile 24/7.

It’s not fun, but it’s not forever and I know if you are frantically looking for care for your Great Aunt on a Saturday evening because you have visited them in hospital in the afternoon with a box of chocs and heard ‘plan to discharge her tomorrow’ then you need someone to answer the phone and arrange a swift assessment! Monday 09.00 is too late and the custom will rightly go elsewhere.

Where I think customers could be considerate of small businesses is in their ability to absorb doing a lot of work for free and not getting paid - the lady with the fabric shop who did hours of work researching and measuring for the customer to go to John Lewis was a good example of this. It’s entirely reasonable to go to a big chain with your own money - I do myself for most purchases! But it’s kind to think about how likely you are to go ahead before asking for very detailed quotes from an independent. We very often spend 10+ hours doing a ‘Meet and Greet’, a full assessment and writing full care plans and risk assessments only for the client to ‘decide they don’t need it yet’. It’s very hard for independents to absorb that.

I try to use independents but I also feel bad if I dont buy anything.

Also some of them post things on social media to make others feel bad but they are not open that often, close at the drop of a hat for family anniversaries etc and are quite entitled.

Consistency is exactly why the chains like McDonalds, Greggs, and other chains (both hospitality and retail) are so popular. It's not just the standardised/consistent opening hours, it's the standardised product which is basically the same whichever outlet you use, and standardisation of customer service, serving speed, etc. Customers know what to expect. That is why they're so popular, even if their product/service isn't top quality.

Unfortunately, it's always a lottery with small independent businesses. Some are exceptional, some are absolute crap, but you don't know which it will be until you use them. That can sometimes mean serious disappointment. And when that happens, you not only don't go back to the same place, but you're also put off trying another small/independent next time you want something.

Taking cash to the bank isn't a luxury! It's a necessity! Likewise picking up their car after a service/mot isn't a luxury if the garage closes before the shopowner closes at 5/6 or whatever. Nor getting some fresh air and exercise.

They can do the MOT on the random weekday they close (because they all do).

I have never worked in an office that let me go for some "exercise and fresh air" for a big chunk of the time between 12 and 2. 30 mins break to eat lunch, that's it.

Regardless, you cannot just shut your shop every time you need to pop out.

Well, you can, but then dont be shocked if customers get pissed off. There are lots of errands I would like to run daily but I cant leave work so they have to wait until I can either get out myself, or I pay someone to do them or cover for me.

Thats the life of a business owner I'm afraid and if you dont like it, then dont run a shop on your own. Or, go into business with someone else who can help you cover such occasions.

Noone is forcing anyone to run their own business here - if convenience is your top priority then working for someone else part time would be a better option for you.

Exactly - I am lol at the idea that any previous employer would ever let me pop out for 2-3 hours whenever I felt like it for "some fresh air"

I don't think infrequent opening is as important as being clear about when you are opening and sticking to it.

As a customer, thats not my problem. Thats something the business owner should have considered before they set up their business. They should have a contingency plan for things like this or get staff to cover the shop.

Seeing that a business expects to get MY money, I expect them to solve such problems and not expect me to have work around them. The idea that customers should be considerate to the fact that a shop owner needs to go to the garage or get some exercise is utterly ridiculous.

As if the customer has all the time in the world to wander around town with no commitments of their own 😂