To think *some* independent shops really aren't helping themselves...?

[BeansAndNoodles]

I'm massively supportive of small businesses, I try to use them as often as I can. We are lucky to have a high street with lots of independent shops. However, my trips to town are limited due to being short of spare time, plus parking costs a fortune unless you limit it to the free 90 mins that you get in the supermarket car park, etc.

But time and time again I go to one of the independent shops to find them randomly shut. I get that they probably only have one staff member so it's hard to stay open if anything out of the ordinary happens, but it's still so flipping frustrating.

The last few trips to town have ended with me ordering stuff online or going into one of the chains because the independent shops I wanted were closed for no apparent reason. The independent health food shop is the worst, they close for an hour at some point between 11 and 3 for lunch but it's not the same time day to day and they don't say on the closed sign what time they'll be back, so if you get there and it's shut you don't know if it's worth trekking back to that end of town in 30 mins or not. I tend not to even bother checking now and just go straight Holland & Barrat instead. Several more shops seem to rely on posting that days opening hours on their FB page, but thats hardly a reliable way to tell people if they're open or not! Last week I had an afternoon off and took a trip to a different town specifically to go to a shop that stocks work by local artists to get some cards and gifts, only to find it closed with no indication of why or if it was opening late or what. I checked their FB page while stood outside but nope nothing. Later that day (3 hours after their stated opening time) they posted that they'd decided to open later for the Christmas lights switch on and that they hoped people would come and support them

Anyway I've just seen yet another slightly passive aggressive plea from one of the owners of the worst shops for this, complaining how quiet business is and telling people to use them or lose them yada. Well yes I totally agree but more often then not when I try to use them they're not bloody open!

PP’s shop wasn’t viable and the customers didn’t want what she offered at the price she was selling. Simple as that. No one can run a successful business just because they really really want to

Yes, I agree. As hard as that is to swallow, it's the truth.

Oh, I've taken all the "respinsibility" I'm prepared to take, thanks, to the tune of 5 grands worth of debt incurred trying to give my customers what they wanted.

My goods were not over priced, and people wanted them, but not when they discovered the joys of Temu and reverse image search which was often done in front of my face.

In your little world it's really simple, in the real world not so much.

A PP said that if businesses fail it's simply the owners fault. I know just as much as anyone the cost of sodding living, and need no sanctimony from you. As for my customers, many of them were great, I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did without them obviously. Some were absolute pains in the arse, not that I ever treated them that way. The driving factors behind alot of sole traders going under is the ever and more rapidly changing consumer landscape and wider economics. There isn't time for one person or even two to keep moving, adjusting, adapting, competing. You need whole departments for social media and without online sales as well it's impossible to survive. With the best will in the world, it's impossible to sustain because your landlord and suppliers and utility providers aren't going to give you grace during rocky periods when external factors impact cashflow.

I won't get it through your fluffy little head that unless you've done it, it looks really simple from the customer persoective but it really fucking isn't.

If I could have pin pointed what people wanted from me, other than just giving things away and doing casual social work, I would have had half a chance.
I'm allowed to be bitter. I absolutely avoided all the pitfalls being moaned about here, but as I said before, people are fickle. And Temu became their friend. And everyone wants the Instagram version of life which pretends that running a business means you are rolling in cash and kudos. And need to be taken down a peg or two apparently

A few thoughts here- firstly, you could have asked your customers what they wanted, done some proper market research. I do this with my business regularly, ask people how we can make it better/improve and what they want and if you respond to even 40% of what they are asking the dividends pay hugely.

Secondly, Temu is people's "friend" due to the fact it's very cheap and convenient. It's not because anyone wants to "take you down a peg or two". You are talking as if all your customers were out to get you and going on Temu solely to spite you and your business.

They weren't. You are taking this way too personally - the fact is- they really weren't thinking about you at all, they were thinking of themselves and their own pockets and perhaps doing shopping in their lunch hour online because it is easier and they dont have to rush back to the office with the worry of being late etc
Noone is sitting around trying to figure out ways to spite independent shop owners, plotting to take them down a peg or two etc

Thats in your head, it's not reality. Most of us are just trying to get the best and most convenient deal we can. It really is that simple.

I agree with you OP. I live in a small seaside town in the South East. I try to use local businesses as much as I can but stop using the ones that:

• have ridiculous opening hours and seem to be run as a hobby
• have surly staff
• sell things at silly prices.

Shops and cafes that have reasonable prices and look after their customers do a good trade here still and not just at the weekends.

“Little world”
”fluffy head”

yeah… I’m getting an insight into why your business wasn’t a success. Sheer contempt for the customer. You’re not cut out to run a business, don’t worry about it.

I won't get it through your fluffy little head that unless you've done it, it looks really simple from the customer persoective but it really fucking isn't

My husband runs his own business and is an independent trader, not in retail though. He hasnt closed down and is highly successful now after years of hard work. I am fully aware of the work and sacrifices it involves, thanks.

But maybe thats because he doesnt have such blatant contempt for his customers....

So find out when they are open first.

Have you read the thread? People are saying a lot of independent shops don't have reliable opening hours and don't publicise those hours in advance.
Customers turn up to find the shop closed with maybe a note on the door "closing early today to attend child's nativity #FamilyFirst"

I have done this before - checked their website, it says its open.

Got all the way down there only to find a note on the door that its closed and they'll be back "soon". No clarification of when "soon" might be though - could be 15 mins, could be three hours, so I left.

I dont have time for this bollocks when I am on my lunch hour and I wont go back to a shop that does this because they are unreliable.

That’s crazy. My dads pub was near to a diving place and they often had them wrestling themselves in wetsuits and dry robes in the pub car park
he would have come up with some “pint and meal deal” for builders and welcomed them in

although this thread reminds me of the time he got a complaint about not enough breakfast choice - the menu was whatever you wanted! Anything from avocado on toast to a full English to cheese and meat to porridge, just ask

This happens constantly round here.

All valid points, but the reality is the independent book shop will have paid more than the supermarket for those books, and certainly more than "half price", so it's impossible for them to compete. THAT's the problem in a nutshell.

The big chains get their supplies far cheaper than the independents.

In fact, lots of smaller independents buy stock from the likes of supermarkets as it's cheaper than wholesalers or going direct and to go direct you usually need huge quantities to order, that is if you can get an account, as many have restrictions as to who can order directly based on locality, shop type, etc.

A fair few of my smaller clients, i.e. cafes, shops, etc., regularly get trolley fulls of stuff from Tesco or other supermarkets, or buy huge amounts from Amazon or Temu, because they can buy the stuff cheaper than through "official" channels. But obviously they still can;t sell cheaper than the supermarkets otherwise they'd make a loss.

When we had our family newsagents, I went every Saturday morning to Kwiksave to get two trolley loads of cereals, tins, packets, etc as they were substantially cheaper than our wholesalers. We tended to just "up price" by 10p or 20p on the Kwiksave price to cover our costs (petrol, parking, etc), - that was just to get customers into the shop to buy other stuff that we could make a profit on and stop them walking/driving to the other shops around us for "convenience" last minute/forgotten items.

It's not a level playing field. THere's no way an indie could ever sell anything cheaper than supermarkets on online retailers as they pay more than that in the first place!

I think the point is that the retailers want thimgs to change (ie for more people to shop there), not particularly the would be shoppers. I have seen a fair few local "use it or lose it" posts and it baffles me. If I already don't use it, why would i give a monkeys if I lose it?

Urgh - how annoying!

I was so pissed after doing this on my precious lunch break and then wasting half of it for a pointless trip. Its no wonder they lose customers.

I think - as well as the totally random opening times/closures - lots of people simply don't have the money to buy non-essentials atm.
I love books and perfume. I have a lot of both - all bought from independents/makers.
I simply do not need and have no room for more.
I'm getting a little tired of local shops moaning on FB that they don't get enough custom...how many people need wooden toys aged 0-8 year round?
How many people need ceramic trinkets and scarves/costume jewellery with a huge mark up?
Then most of these shops are only open 10-2/3 Tuesday to Saturday!
And they either don't have online shopping or their websites are so clunky you just give up ☹️
There is a shop locally that has basically been the same shop (think arty/craft shop) under its last 3 owners...
All have closed within 18 months...
Surely people have grasped their is no appetite for whats it's offering?
Just bizarre.

I agree, it starts off great and you get to know their opening hours. Then one day you turn up to find they’re closed that day/time, then it happens on another random day a couple of times and you just give up and go somewhere else that has consistency with opening hours. See also businesses that close at the weekends or even worse suddenly decide they are closing at the weekends and then you have got to find someone else who does nails gah

I am sorry you had such a horrible experience. But the crux of the matter is that a shop must cater to the customer, not the other way around. If your stock was available on temu at a third of thr price, of course people will buy it from there - there is a cost of living crisis. And the ethical consideration is also a bit disingenuous if your stock and the temu stock are in fact from the same origin. It just means your stock is supporting a middleman (the wholesaler) as well as the manufacturer.
I think what independant retailers fail to consider is that they are there to provide a service, and it is up to them to ensure that their offering is unique, affordable and welcoming enough to compete with online retailers as well as being profitible enoygh. The High Street isn't the most convenient shopping option anymore, so you really have to work out why you are worth visiting over an online store.

@Glennponder Yes- same in my town.

Does anyone remember that scene in Absolutely Fabulous when Patsy and Edina are talking about new shops and Patsy says "Eddie, have you seen that fabulous new shop- the one with terracotta pots and chiffon in the window?" and Eddie says "No darling, what do they sell?" and Patsy says "No idea- terracotta pots and chiffon????"

We have exactly those kind of random shops where I live. The windows always have arty displays with terracotta pots and bits of silk draped over them, then some random bit of old reclaimed wood dumped at the front with a tea light and a single white feather on it.

They are only ever open 12- 2pm, three days a week, and there is never, ever anyone else in the shop. You browse around and the woman behind the till is always snooty and has that Pretty Woman shop assistant vibe and you come out and think WTF does it even sell? I've literally been in there and I still have no idea what it actually sells!

We seem to have loads of these stupid weird shops and I have no idea how they even survive as noone ever seems to buy anything. I've often wondered if they are a front for money laundering.

Nobody is saying it is easy. We are saying, given it isn’t easy, why make life harder for yourself (not you personally) by antics like running an appointment-only wool shop (nobody wants to book a private tour of your carefully curated yarn collection, they just want to go in and buy some wool), or opening completely random hours which change from day to day depending on your other plans, or ignoring customers in favour of hanging out with your mates, and treating customers like an irritating fly for interrupting your socialising?

Of course it is possible for a small business to fail without doing any of those things, which makes it all the more baffling when people act like that. Unless it is a hobby business, as my local wool shop and quite a few local coffee shops/microbreweries clearly are. Or a money-laundering operation, as some of the beauty salons are.

This is exactly what I am talking about! And yes, trophy wife hobby business, or drug dealer’s girlfriend money laundering operation, depending on location/owner.

Personally i don't care where a retailer sources their stock, if something is cheaper from a supermarket or Amazon than it is from the cash and carry that's the place to buy it. The small shop has to offer a different customer experience to the chains, to justify the premium on the prices I could order online myself, but not if it's something I need today and I'm not totally sure what to buy, I could go to a retail park but not if it's only for a couple of items and the retail park is 10 miles away

It was local late night Xmas shopping last weekend in my small town. It’s a great idea as all of the shops are open, and I visited quite a few that I hadn’t done before as it was more convenient for me. It’s taken a couple of years for it to become successful but a local traders association have done a good job (including paying for the Xmas lights). It’s also well advertised in advanced, and clear about the hours and what else is on offer. I imagine it takes a huge amount of effort but glad it’s paying off.

I posted upthread about this as there are a few coffee shops around here that say the same thing. IMO, they should be trying to make it a place where people do want to go, put on events or host people so they are on people’s radar as an interesting place to go to, advertise more widely, do special offers. Anything to get the customers in. Shutting at 3pm is hopeless for a cafe. We went into one last week at 2.30pm and they were cleaning up around us. Not exactly relaxing or enjoyable so that means I won’t go after 2pm in future so they will probably start shutting then. As you say, a self perpetuating loop of doom that is bound to fail.

This argument only works if you assume they literally only lost what money they might have taken had they been open at that particular time. It doesn’t take into account the potential long-term business they might lose from customers being frustrated by irregular, unpredictable opening hours - the most common complaint on this thread.

As I suggested earlier on the thread, a practical option for a one-man band would be to close at 2 for lunch, and stick to that closing time. You get your break AND the bulk of the lunchtime trade - and if it’s advertised that you close from 2 - 3, you’re less likely to have frustrated potential customers turn up at that time to find you’re shut.