To think *some* independent shops really aren't helping themselves...?

[BeansAndNoodles]

I'm massively supportive of small businesses, I try to use them as often as I can. We are lucky to have a high street with lots of independent shops. However, my trips to town are limited due to being short of spare time, plus parking costs a fortune unless you limit it to the free 90 mins that you get in the supermarket car park, etc.

But time and time again I go to one of the independent shops to find them randomly shut. I get that they probably only have one staff member so it's hard to stay open if anything out of the ordinary happens, but it's still so flipping frustrating.

The last few trips to town have ended with me ordering stuff online or going into one of the chains because the independent shops I wanted were closed for no apparent reason. The independent health food shop is the worst, they close for an hour at some point between 11 and 3 for lunch but it's not the same time day to day and they don't say on the closed sign what time they'll be back, so if you get there and it's shut you don't know if it's worth trekking back to that end of town in 30 mins or not. I tend not to even bother checking now and just go straight Holland & Barrat instead. Several more shops seem to rely on posting that days opening hours on their FB page, but thats hardly a reliable way to tell people if they're open or not! Last week I had an afternoon off and took a trip to a different town specifically to go to a shop that stocks work by local artists to get some cards and gifts, only to find it closed with no indication of why or if it was opening late or what. I checked their FB page while stood outside but nope nothing. Later that day (3 hours after their stated opening time) they posted that they'd decided to open later for the Christmas lights switch on and that they hoped people would come and support them

Anyway I've just seen yet another slightly passive aggressive plea from one of the owners of the worst shops for this, complaining how quiet business is and telling people to use them or lose them yada. Well yes I totally agree but more often then not when I try to use them they're not bloody open!

A card/gift/homewares shop close to us has just announced that they will be closing for the Christmas break on the 20th December so the owner has time to get ready for Christmas with ‘my little family’. They look forward to seeing their ‘loyal customers’ again on the 6th January.

I’d put money on the fact that their social media in January will be full of ‘woe is me’, ‘it’s so quiet’, ‘please come and shop with us’ messages.

I have school drop off at 8.20, and an exercise class at 9 a couple of days a week so I have a bit of time to spare and like to get a coffee. In a town full of independents (that often also share their pleas), the only one open at that time is Costa 😭. I get it, they're probably on the school run too, but I reckon there are plenty more people like me with that limbo time, who would like to do the same as me.

The cost of taking on an extra employee presumably far outweighs the £20 they are losing when they close for lunch.

There’s a successful indie bookshop near me. It’s bucking the trend in a failing town. There are friendly, remember you, do lots of extra events. Happy to chat, advise, very knowledgeable. If you asked for something they will get it in. They will if you live near enough, drop books off at your house.
Very clear about closing and opening, lots of notice. Very occasionally they open late, however on other days they always confirm they are open (sometimes early).
However, I also know the owner is a total arsehole to his staff which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Several people have left after being bullied by him.

But does it outweigh the loss of custom? And it sounds like the lunch hour is a moveable feast, which is a problem for customers.

Thank you for being understanding. I was in an impossible position for the last two years of my "retail journey" and alot of it was down to losing my DP which was horrendous, obviously. He was very well known in our community so it wasn't something I could keep under wraps or minimise.

For the first year after he passed, my customer base was consistent, but it was partly driven by the drama of it all I think. I can pinpoint the day my takings dropped to a WTF level and never recovered - one local bus company went out of business which halved services down my road. Parking was non existent, so footfall declined dramatically. Other businesses around me were similarly affected. My main issue was being one person trying to do it all while in the grip of some pretty horrendous ongoing personal fall out from my DPs death, and being pressured and guilted into "keeping going" in his memory, and because it was "what he would have wanted".

I did have a particular USP, which was created to fill a gap in our local market, and which did work for the first five years. Unfortunately Covid knocked us sideways, and people's spending changed to mainly online at that point, so we had to downsize and relocate. We refined our business model, rebranded somewhat to suit the changing market, and it may well have been a different story had DP not died suddenly one month after our very successful grand re-opening.

It's really not as cut and dried as people here seem to think, and you're right, you can't please everyone. I recently found out that a now ex friend had been telling people how wrong it was that I was actually paying my household bills and expenses from the shop takings rather than continually re-investing solely in the business, as if that isn't the point of running a business. What she actually meant was that she was pissed off that she wanted to work for me and take over but I couldn't afford to employ her. I'm not sure if I was supposed to give up my home and sleep under my desk in the shop, but losing my home happened anyway.

As for the basics like consistent opening hours, customer service, communication etc I had that covered. According to FB I had a huge and loyal customer base. According to footfall, I did not. Go figure.

If I could have pin pointed what people wanted from me, other than just giving things away and doing casual social work, I would have had half a chance.

I'm allowed to be bitter. I absolutely avoided all the pitfalls being moaned about here, but as I said before, people are fickle. And Temu became their friend. And everyone wants the Instagram version of life which pretends that running a business means you are rolling in cash and kudos. And need to be taken down a peg or two apparently.

The last event I did was an alternative fashion show in collaboration with another retro venue. Despite advertising solidly, working hard on upcycling, and really throwing everything at it, only a relative handful of people turned up, and I had three sales. The venue incorporated refreshments so did ok over the bar, and everyone enjoyed the ambience but weren't interested in spending money despite again carefully curating a sensible range of price options etc etc.

I never had anything other than positive, even glowing reviews online. So while people here are rolling their eyes and painting me bitter and possibly delusional, perhaps actually consider that running a small independent business in the current economic climate - emphasis on that - is extremely challenging, and no matter how much you want the people running it to simply exist to serve your every whim, they have lives and their own issues, whether you think that's acceptable or not

But thank you again @KimHwn , I appreciate your ability to see the very vast picture.

I do agree with you.
I don't very often buy books new because I have an incredible second hand bookshop and a couple of excellent libraries nearby but I do make an exception for authors whose work I really love. The most recent of those was Richard Osman, which I picked up in the supermarket for half price.

A few days later I noticed that the local independent bookshop had copies in the window that they were selling for full price. Of course I understand they have overheads to cover and I'd love to help support them but with the best will in the world I cannot justify an extra tenner or paying £8 for a book that's been out for a couple of years that I can get for a pound in the SH shop.

I would if I could, but I can't. Doubtless the owners will probably hate me as much as the PP does towards their customers for making the same decisions but thems the breaks.

I try to shop independent but share some of the frustrations in this thread. The shortened hours and lack of regular opening hours mean that they aren't an option. We too have a soft play and other businesses on an industrial estate and the parking is hideous.

I have repeatedly tried to shop at independent bookstores in our town. The staff have been quite rude to me while being very friendly with other customers, so I stopped going in. I didn't do anything other than try to buy a book so I have no idea why they have been so rude. In one the owner was having a laugh about my country with another customer and they were both quite derogatory.

I now drive an hour away to buy books from a different independent shop. The difference is night and day. There is also a lovely independent in our town that sells homewares. They have regular hours so I buy from them regularly.

We do not frequent independent cafes much anymore because they always seem unable to accommodate our dietary needs whereas chains can.

I do feel for the owners as you can't please everyone, but there are some long established shops that show you can get it right. I don't mind social media pleas for some businesses. I resent the ones where people are bemoaning the fact that they haven't made enough money and they're selling stickers or something that clearly can't provide enough money at the best of times.

Did you ever consider that your "specialist wholesaler" was buying its stock from Temu and Shein, then marking up the price to sell to you. Why not cut out the middleman? I know full well that some of the things I buy, I could source cheaper from a Chinese company, but I am happy to pay a premium to get it locally because it's quicker, i can see the item, returns are easy. The Uk retailer because they are buying in quantity will be getting discount from the manufacturer, just as long they're not taking the piss I'll shop there, that is if they're open!

You have absolutely missed the point that unless you are in high end or custom business, almost anything can be brought in from China by anybody extremely cheaply, and customers do that. And when you realise, as a retailer, that unless you operate as a glorified pound shop, you can't compete, it becomes clear it's madness to try to.

This is why you end up with towns full of barbers and vape shops and takeaways and charity shops, all of which get slated regularly on MN for lowering the tone and fronting illegal practises. And in between those, boarded up shops because rent and rates are astrnomical.

And I DARE point out the realities of running an independent shop because I actually did it for 7 years, and know more than alit if you about the realities of it, as opposed to your fever dreams of how you think it should be.

Funnily enough, "manifesting success" doesn't beat economics or geopolitics or an ever rising cost of living, unless you think business owners should just live on fresh air ?

So true op. I live in an area with many hobby shops. One owner of a lovely shop is so awful I look in first and if she is there, I give it a miss. Never a hello and staff speak of her mean nature. No thanks.

Again nearby is a beautiful gallery whose owner never acknowledges me despite spending a lot of money in there previously. Yet a few doors away, a more moderately priced shop has an owner that is unfailingly helpful and makes gift suggestions. If she goes to lunch she substitutes her husband/family. No closing on your limited shopping time.

I have stopped going to a place I patronised for years because they have moved to a model that suits them, even food wise, rather than the customer. Bowl of sprouts for a tenner anyone. They also have a lovely shop that only opens during food serving. Some merchandise has cooking smells. Sorry here tho as the owner is lovely. Moan over.

Actually Cafe Nero is excellent. I’m a coffee enthusiast and I say that advisedly. I can’t stand Starbucks and hate the horrible chamber-pot cups and insipid, milky coffee of Costa, but Nero is superior and I haven’t got a bad word to say about them. My coffee there is always super-strong and piping hot and served professionally, quickly and with a smile…by Italians…so, the real thing.

You have absolutely missed the point that unless you are in high end or custom business, almost anything can be brought in from China by anybody extremely cheaply, and customers do that. And when you realise, as a retailer, that unless you operate as a glorified pound shop, you can't compete, it becomes clear it's madness to try to.

But what I'm still asking is: why bother to set up something as expensive and time-consuming as a retail outlet if you're just selling on stuff people can get cheaply elsewhere? I get it if you're selling your own art/craft things, or there's a collective of craftspeople's work, where each takes a turn in staffing the shop. Or if you're importing amazing things which aren't available in the UK from anywhere else (like One Village in Woodstock, Oxon).

I just do not understand the logic of opening a shop which sells things you've bought wholesale (and people can get cheaper elsewhere), bunging a big mark-up on them and expecting to make a profit?? Otherwise you're just in the market with the BIg Boys/Girls, and you'll never compete with them.

I have found this when a tourist, it's amazing how many tea shops close around 3pm, or even nominally 4pm but make you feel unwelcome by obviously preparing to close for at least 30 mins beforehand.

And a bar which used to be a default for my friends, usually busy, took to closing early if they were quiet. They are now rarely busy because the trust that it would be open set hours has gone.

ElsieMc · Today 10:21
So true op. I live in an area with many hobby shops. One owner of a lovely shop is so awful I look in first and if she is there, I give it a miss. Never a hello and staff speak of her mean nature. No thanks.
Again nearby is a beautiful gallery whose owner never acknowledges me despite spending a lot of money in there previously. Yet a few doors away, a more moderately priced shop has an owner that is unfailingly helpful and makes gift suggestions. If she goes to lunch she substitutes her husband/family. No closing on your limited shopping time.

Yes - this is the absolute minimum requirement for shops - welcome your customers, even if they annoy you! The old adage about the customer being always right has to be sucked up, annoying though it might be.

Why an economically vulnerable indie retailer feels they have the wriggle-room to be rude to customers baffles me, but I've experienced or witnessed it frequently. Years ago I wanted a pair of silver earrings in the shape of acorns, and thought a local craft jeweller who had similar things might be a good bet. Went in, smiling, and humbly said "I'm looking for a pair of earrings I've seen someone wearing" (which might have sounded daft, sure) but before I could describe what I was after, the shop keeper stared at me coldly and said '"Well we don't have things that other people sell!"

What? That doesn't eve make sense! She was so rude and clearly didn't even want to know what I was looking for. I left immediately. Silly cow.

@Mistressofthedarksidethat all sounds incredibly difficult and stressful, I am sure running a small shop is very hard and factors like footfall/COVID changes are outside shopkeeper's control.

I do wish people wouldn't use shops as a free viewing service though, if they want to physically check the quality of an item then they should buy it at the shop that allows them to do so.

yes, the tea shop closure at 3pm baffles me too. Ons day out, 3pm is usually the time point at which DH and I are ready for a sit down with a cup of coffee and a piece of cake. We can’t be the only ones? Unless we’re at a Stately Home with its own in house cafe, we usually browse the local cafes, find they’re sweeping up and “just cleaned the coffee machine” and end up in Costa.

One notable exception in Berwick last year, the cafe/shop looked empty at 3.30pm but the staff were welcoming when we popped our heads around the door, some lovely home made cakes and nice coffee. They had other customers after us so we weren’t the only ones. I hope they are successful.

At the time we set up, 9 years ago, our business model was a combination of harder to source new items, vintage and handmade items. And it worked. Post pandemic those harder to source new items were being produced prolifically and cheaply and everyone had gone over to shopping online. I did used to sell other people's handmade items, then cheap knock offs flooded the online market. It's way more complicated these days than you can imagine. And if someone's hand made item is worth £100 to them, you have to put on 25% which ups the price. Alot of my makers did very nicely because after an initial purchase, the customer would deal directly with the maker.

The fact is that independent bricks and mortar retail is dying as a sole source of income. It's down to online selling across every market. As others have rather sneerily pointed out, those higher end independent boutiques are run by people who have another source of funding behind them and aren't reliant on them to make a living. And I say good luck to them, because without them we're stuck with identikit high streets and little of interest in our towns for those increasingly rare occasions when people feel a wave of nostalgia and want to actually go shopping. As long as the experience meets their exacting criteria of course.

There's no 'should' about it in the harsh world of retail.

It's the shop-owner's job to think all these loopholes through. Sell things which you can't get elsewhere, or sell them competitively. There just isn't any third option.

No-one forces people to open a shop.

And I say good luck to them, because without them we're stuck with identikit high streets and little of interest in our towns for those increasingly rare occasions when people feel a wave of nostalgia and want to actually go shopping. As long as the experience meets their exacting criteria of course.

I agree that it's nice to have a variety of lovely shops rather than tattoo, nail-bars, betting shops, and Turkish barbers etc.

I LOVE a good independent shop and I'm a good customer in the good ones (despite my scepticism above) but they have to be good. They have to be selling very special things if they want to charge high prices. In Cirencester I saw two shops selling nice household things almost next door to each other. One had a coolbag for £24...and the other had the identical item for £12. Which one was right?

I have been in many shops where I have never seen their merchandise anywhere else, and in those I'll get my wallet out. But if it's more generally available things they have to be competitively priced.

I agree. It's the same on my town
Can't rely on them so I don't prioritise going there anymore

AND just yesterday I took my granny to what is known as a lovely cafe and shop full of lovely Christmas stuff... but they only open 3 days a week and serve lunch 12-2pm WTF. You can't reserve a table, you can be added to a waitlist. I asked how long it was and they said 1hr and so by that time lunch service will be over.
We said no thanks and left!
The place is only so busy because they open very few days. If they open more, the clientele is more spread out but because of the way it's run I will never go back

Precisely. It boggles my mind. One shop here closed not long after opening and the owner was moaning on Facebook about the “death of the high street.” Sorry but, no. The reality is you were selling shite that no one wants, or if they did they can get it elsewhere for cheaper.

The independent shops in our town that are successful and go the distance, actually sell things that people want and can’t get elsewhere. They have good opening times and they are also savvy with social media.

If you’re not successful it really is your own fault, not the customers. You can’t just expect people to buy shit from you because you think it’s the morally right thing to do 🙄

And I DARE point out the realities of running an independent shop because I actually did it for 7 years, and know more than alit if you about the realities of it, as opposed to your fever dreams of how you think it should be
Funnily enough, "manifesting success" doesn't beat economics or geopolitics or an ever rising cost of living, unless you think business owners should just live on fresh air ?

Of course you can give your side of the story and shoppers will equally give theirs, which is what we are all doing in this thread because the OP specifically asked for customer experiences, not shop owners.

You talk about living on fresh air and yet you expect your customers to pay way over the odds for products which you admit they can purchase far cheaply elsewhere, so why do you assume that your customers are rolling in money?

There have been times when I couldnt afford to put the heating on in the past so there is no way I am going to spend extra money in your shop when I dont need to- what do you expect me to live on- fresh air?

See, this point applies to your overpriced goods also.

You are painting all your customers in a very unpleasant light as if it's entirely their fault why your business failed and I am sorry but I dont agree. You need to take some responsibility for this.

PP’s shop wasn’t viable and the customers didn’t want what she offered at the price she was selling. Simple as that. No one can run a successful business just because they really really want to.