Doctor lying on report..

[Anon662120622]

So I've sent a very blunt email with threats to report to the ombudsman and GMC after appointment with specialist.. Long story short - Shoulder trauma injury, felt shoulder pop out and tear. Still no improvement after 21 weeks, unable to lift arm out any further than 30 degrees. Extreme impact on quality of life

I've been to multiple appointments and four physio sessions (referred by doctor.) Last one was extremely dismissive and actually lied in the report. Physio wrote a letter suggesting he thought I had a paralysed muscle, muscle wastage and nerve damage. Doctor completely wrote that of as he "doesn't trust that physio" because he doesn't specialise in my kind of injury... Why send me there and waste two whole months then?! He told me I was holding my arm down.. it's completely deformed, as mentioned above, I felt it like pop out and it was instantly lower.

He lied on the report saying
*I could touch my thumb to my lower lumbar spine which was an outright lie. I can't get my arm to rotate backwards at all.
*He noted there was no muscle wastage - my shoulder is pretty much skin and bones, there has definitely been a massive amount of wastage.

• noted no weakness of rotator cuff. I'd say not being able to lift my arm out any further than 30 degrees indicates a significant amount of weakness?

I've written a complaint email to the pals team noting that I'm going to complain to the ombudsman and GMC and will even go down the legal route if a delayed diagnosis leads to further problems/permanent paralysis.

I asked for a second opinion and they've just booked me back in to see the same doctor.. fastest response and appointment offer I've ever recieved I might add.

Am I being unreasonable to ask again for a second opinion from a different doctor?
I'm still going to attend the one with the same doctor and have said I'm requesting to be able to audio record this next appointment so any discrepancies can be properly noted with no denial. I'm also requesting for the report to be changed.

I believe the reason he said all of the lies as mentioned would be to downplay my injury to avoid having to take the reasonable steps to treat me properly? He referred me to a rehab saying they'd give me a diagnosis on my first appointment and he'd trust everything they say. They phoned to book my appointment and told me that the doctors massively lie and act like they're some kind of miracle workers. They said they're essentially just another physio and they wouldn't be able to give me a diagnosis.)

I've honestly just had enough, I'm going to have to pay to go private.. maybe our NI and Tax should be a thing of the past, or massively dropped as we obviously aren't recieving what it's all advertised to be. 🙄

Also - it's entirely reasonable to be angry about having things that didn't happen put into your report, especially if you think it might have been done deliberately.

It won't fix medical misogyny, but it would certainly help if a lot more women were women to escalate things about their treatment!

so glad you got a good outcome

People always say can you afford to pay something like £250 for a private appointment.

I am all for using the private sector but you have to be realistic. £350 is far closer to an average appointment now, but then ths consultant will want at least an MRI (£400 + in most places) and a follow up appointment at maybe £250. So that is close to £1k just to get a diagnosis.

Then you have to either pay for private treatment (probably several thousand) or go back into the NHS system with the diagnosis. The two systems don’t communicate that well, so that can take time.

Private is only an alternative for this kind of thing if you are prepared to commit £1k for diagnosis and more for treatment.

Yeah I'm really struggling to believe that. It fits in with OPs narrative neatly but those exact words? I'd be very very surprised.

Not a medic, and subject to medical advice including second opinions, but I wouldn't write off physio. In my experience, they can be transformative, but it may take a while to find the right one.

I've been in the position where a surgeon proposed operating to discern the issue, but a physio. solved it (unusual, I'm sure, so, again, #seeyourdr!)

And in the position when physio. made it much, much worse - before I tried a different one who worked on the same condition to, basically, change my life.

I've also been in the position, recovering from broken bones, when movement has been impossible. Not difficult, or painful, but like moving a joint is like trying to bend steel - like, your body absolutely, fundamentally knows that it was never meant to move that way, any more than an elbow can turn inside out. Yet, with physio., over time, it did.

You really need to stick at it and work on it in your own time, though. I've never had a recovery that lasted less than 6 months to a year, and no recovery yet has been absolute, back-to-normal and not required some maintenance treatment.

@deliberations yes, I think they're taking it seriously.. I've had one missed call this morning to arrange an appointment and another to discuss further what I'm unhappy about. They have now changed it to a different orthopedic specialist and have said if I'm still unhappy with the outcome after the upcoming appointment then they'll refer me to a different hospital with a fresh team of specialists.. this has definitely made me feel a little better.

Yes, I had two different xrays (two different a+e visits after injury) then had an mri showing burstitis, tendinopathy and thinning of the subscapularis but they also said there must be more involved due to the pain I was in, such limited movement and the dropped shoulder.

Yes, last dr suggested no frozen shoulder but that's the one I was unhappy with so I'm not too sure if the next one will look into that further. 🤞

Thank you 😊

@Catiette thank you, that has given me some reassurance.. I will try another physio

As an orthopaedic surgeon I think you are being very reasonable to ask for a second opinion.
An alternative would be to take the second appointment with the same consultant, take the letter and ask him how he came to the conclusion you can reach your lumbar spine. He might not be deliberately lying about the other two things - muscle wasting is very subjective and lifting the shoulder above 30 degrees is done by the deltoid muscle, so difficulties doing this are not due to rotator cuff weakness. Was it uncomfortable for you? - sometimes the pain can inhibit the movement.
Unless you are visiting a large hospital there may only be one shoulder specialist working there - you would need to referral to another hospital to get the second opinion - in this case it may be better to see the initial doctor and challenge him / explain the bits of the letter that you disagree with / try and work things out.
I think you need to actually have suffered harm as a result of the doctors negligence to have a legal case so I'm not sure you will achieve anything form going this route.
Before you see anyone again have a think about what you want to happen. There is no magic wand for the conditions you describe on your MRI but expressing your hopes and expectations will allow whoever sees you to take these into account and if what you want is not something that they would recommend, at least they can explain why.

Wouldn't surprise me. I’ve experienced one lying before. My ex is a GP and I used to hear about many cover ups going on.

Of course there is many wonderful doctors but some are incompetent, have god complexes and are in it for the money.

Some GPS like any other human, do have a god complex. My otherwise lovely gp once said to me "I could be wrong but I seldom am" I felt very sad for his wife in that moment. I pointed out he was just another flawed human not a robot and he got things wrong with me in the past. Unless he has MRI eyeballs there's always things he needs to refer up. I think in my GPS case it unwillingness to be wrong, rather than malice.

Just ask to see another gp. Say it's not personal if you need to.

No you are not being unreasonable. Make sure you tell them you do not trust that doctor and demand another . Clinical negligence is absolutely a issue and it’s getting worse not better

They can (and will) refer you to the NHS. Either to their own clinic, or to some one else’s if they think you need another speciality.

They can also write to your GP to get them to refer you for an MRI.

It’s not always once you go private, you have to stay private.

I cannot see why all these people would lie to you/mislead you. 🤷‍♀️,

Physios are normally quite helpful.

Complain if you like, but I can’t see you getting very far. 🤷‍♀️

OP, I haven't read all your comments or all the replies but I had a similar situation. A few years ago I was in a car accident was left with horrendous pain in my hip, lower back and occassional numbness in my leg. Physio tried various things and eventually said they believed it was a labral tear and there was nothing they could do.
GP called me and dismissed my condition, basically accused me of drug seeking and said the pain was in my head.
A year later I was speaking to a locum, in tears because I was due to go on holiday but was in so much pain that I didn't think I'd be able to go and it clearly wasn't in my head, there were days I could barely stand or get up and down the stairs. She was so lovely and referred me to orthopaedics.
I had one consultation with a specialist physio at ortho and they diagnosed a tendinopathy and bursitis and referred me back to msk physio.
Although I never got a proper apology from the original Dr, I have spoken with him a few times since and his manner is completely different. There will be lots of people who will dismiss this type of thing and say it doesn't happen, it doesn't make sense for a dr to do that and not treat you but oftentimes it's more complex than that. I think you really have to advocate for yourself, move ahead with the complaint if thats the route you want to take, but 100% push for a second opinion with another dr and asked to be referred to a specialist. Good luck.

Hi, I haven’t read every single post, but the CORRECT shoulder damage diagnosis process is this ( I had my shoulder replaced last April.)
See GP, get referral for ultrasound. Get diagnosis from ultrasound, but this won’t be a full assessment, ultrasounds tell you only so much.
Then get referral to orthopod. Sounds like this part you have done.
see orthopod. The FIRST thing he should do is schedule an MRI. This is the gold standard in diagnostics for joint injuries.
That will clearly show all damage, & then a treatment plan from there.
If your orthopod hasn’t done an MRI, he is an incompetent quack.
I had no physio, etc after first seeing GP. Pointless. I did have a couple of steroid injections (first at ultrasound & second from orthopod) which helped with pain.
My symptoms were not nearly as bad as yours, but MRI found ruptures of both infraspinatus, the big triangular muscle at back (not picked up at ultrasound) and the supraspinatus, rendering my rotator cuff more or less useless. I am daily thankful to Mr Narang, my orthopod in Worthing. Genius.

I had no physio, etc after first seeing GP. Pointless.

I'm just going to point out here @Moanranger that my brother is currently being treated for RC injury which was very bad. He's seeing a good physio (they are not all good!) and the exercises and stretches are making a huge difference.
One of the main instructions is - is if hurts don't persevere.

This is an ongoing weakness for him (shoulder) and does reoccur. Over the years he's had a few physios (all privately) and never used a GP because he knew what was wrong.

All physio has helped somewhat but his current physio has got it all 100% right from the word 'go'.

He does exercises with weights, stretches on the floor and standing etc.
It's taken around 6 weeks at least to see improvement from not being able to move his arm above waist height to almost normal.

This is a well documented thing some male doctors do to women out of some sort of underlying misogyny or hatred.

This. I developed shoulder pain and it was diagnosed as osteo arthritis by an orthopaedic specialist. Was referred to a physio who prescribed vigorous exercise. 12 months later and in excruciating pain with several swollen joints, including the shoulder, I went back to my GP who referred me to rheumatology. Diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and put on meds, and told to stop the exercises immediately as they were doing more damage than good. It’s shit.

Physios are helpful if they’re working off the correct diagnosis. I was referred to an orthopod who diagnosed my shoulder problems as Osteo arthritis. It wasn’t, it was rheumatoid arthritis - completely different treatment path. It’s not a question of lying or misleading. In my case it was an arrogant orthopod who didnt want to accept that he was wrong.

I haven't mentioned anyone else lying or being misleading, the physio is very thorough and I'm happy with the care I've recieved from him. He just doesn't think there's anything else he can do to help as we're not getting anywhere recovery wise 😊

It’s amazing how many posters completely refuse to believe that a doctor might be negligent, incompetent or an arsehole. It’s common knowledge that male doctors often fob off women, especially when pain is a factor. Misogyny certainly doesn’t swerve professional men - why would it?! I had a GP snigger and say “haha, have you been fiddled with?” when I disclosed historic sexual abuse. There are plenty of HCPs out there who would dismiss, patronise and gaslight a woman in OP’s position.

Really shouldn't have to do this for people on the Internet but here we are.. had enough of people accusing me of lying. 🙄🥱

Bet there won't be any kind of apology though will there?

Thank you to everyone that has shown support, Giving me help and advice. I do really appreciate it. I'm feeling much more hopeful after my last phone call with the pals team.

I don't know why people find it so unbelievable that a doctor would say "This next place will do X" and the next place says "Your doctor wrong". It's happened to me more than once.