Why can’t we just hang scum like this?

[NameChangedToProtectTheGuilty101]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2k4qd8q97eo

Worse than being a killer.

I don't see the death penalty as unique in the sense we absolutely have to avoid it ever being inadvertently misused.

In a healthy society we have both liberties and restrictions that come at a human cost. Doctors sometimes make mistakes and kill patients, people die in car accidents, innocent people sometimes lose many years of their lives in prison for crimes they didn't commit. All the above, and more, are tragic occurrences, but we accept that is the cost of a free and functioning society.

You "forgot" to include those people killed by the murders who go free when someone innocent is hanged in their place. Which is very much an unknown unknown in this foursquare you tried to draw.

No one remembers the four people John Christie was able to kill precisely because an innocent man was hanged. They are very inconvenient, as they will never ever go away and allow the hang 'em high brigade a clear run at barbarism.

It is astonishing that in a month when the mistaken release of prisoners has been a feature, that some people still have enough faith in the justice system to allow it to kill people. They are either dim beyond belief, or very much the sort of people who pull the wings off flies.

Fair enough. If you consider the end of a few innocent people being killed a justifiable means to imperfect justice, then that's your view. I don't agree, but at least you are honest. Respect.

Zero respect to those that try and pretend we have somehow managed to perfect a justice system while no one was looking. Because that is bollocks.

According to Google, keeping a man in maximum security prison costs £40-50k a year. There are better things to spend the money on.

Or they, as one of the posters up thread stated, think it's acceptable to have some innocents executed.

Is it acceptable to you to have some innocents jailed for decades? Are you okay with that? Or is it that you accept it's a very unfortunate byproduct of a free society with a legal system?

Imprisonment for decades is the same as execution in all but the name.

I am completely opposed to the death penalty. I am completely opposed to police corruption, ineptitude and mistakes that result in innocent people being imprisoned for long periods of time. I am completely opposed to the system that protects the system rather than objectively examining evidence that a mistake was made as soon as it is presented.

However, at least if the individual is still alive, they have a chance at some restitution being made.

But juries will be wary of sending an innocent person to their death and will be more likely to acquit. Therefore you could find that there are fewer convictions overall.

Yes, that was the case when it was on the books.

That's easy to fix.

Get rid of juries.

Yeah. Because Diplock courts worked so well in Northern Ireland.

Yes, but that was before we had Strictly Come Dancing and Bake Off.

So Paul Hollywood will be deciding the fate of everyone up in court?

Not being able to hang evil pieces of shit like this is the price we pay for preventing the wrongful execution of innocent people.

It's not worth it.

Again, I don't agree. But respect for honesty.

You don't waive human rights unless he turned into a different species by what he did. They are rights that you have by virtue of being human. Just human. Not a good human or not even not a completely terrible human. Completely terrible humans are still human and still need protection from the arbitrary power of the state (or the powerful whoever that may be).

There are so many arguments against the death penalty and I think people have heard them so often that it's really pointless listing them again.

For me the crux is that we are who we are just by the luck of the draw. More importantly maybe, a society that sanctions killing is pretty much always not very good to the living either.

You don't waive human rights unless he turned into a different species by what he did. They are rights that you have by virtue of being human. Just human.

I think the missing step between the PPs assertion and your reply is that the PP and their elk get to decide who is human. Presumably using the same books their ancestors used to decide that Africans weren't human and so could be enslaved. And they should be applauded for that. It would be a gross waste to have to reprint them.

Yes it's not great and should be avoided as much as possible but some people need to be kept away to keep society safe and sometimes we get it wrong about who that is. However that's necessary. It's just expensive. The death penalty is just not necessary when you have the option of imprisoning people for life so why indulge in it? Just for the sake of blood Lust? Should we live in a society thst promotes blood Lust? Shouldn't we strive to be better than that?

Being imprisoned for life is not the same as being dead.

Yes true but I thought that was covered by arbitrary power of the state / powerful.

Also, it wouldn't be that pp who gets to decide who deserves human rights and who doesn't. That's the problem. I kind of trust that most ordinary people aren't completely amoral but they are not rhe ones who would get to decide. It would genuinely just be whoever is (probably rich) and powerful at that time.

People who whine about the cost of imprisonment as a justification are literally putting a price on human life.

Not figuratively, Not metaphorically. Literally.

It's a shame they can't be honest about it, as it might make some people suspect they are ashamed of it.

So would you be ok with you or a loved one being executed despite being innocent?

I think the PP is coming from a place where no one in their family would ever be wrongfully convicted.

I mean how many of these so called "innocents" have probably committed some other crime they weren't charged with ? You only have to read MN to realise how many guilty people get off by the jury not seeing what is plainly obvious to the world.

True. The Birmingham 6 had never been convicted of anything prior to their arrests but they were guilty of one of the most heinous crimes of the day, namely being Irish, so that was ok.

Three of the Guildford 4 had previous involvement in petty crime but were also either guilty of the same heinous crime of being Irish or, in the case of Carole Richardson, associating with Irish people.

None of the Maguire 7, including the 13 year old boy, had committed any crime other than being Irish or of Irish descent. The 13 year old boy was convicted age 14 and spent 4 years in an adult high security prison. That's what you get for having an upstanding, law-abiding mother who happened to be Irish.

Exactly !

Only someone with something to hide has no police record.

I’d prefer it, if they could do something useful for society and be used for testing new medications…I mean there might be a few ethical hoops to jump through, but you know ‘for the greater good’ and all that!